Belarus would probably welcome Russia with open arms.

Fucking with Finland would be war.

That's the kind of thing you say when you want to get printed in media. If Putin believes mistakes were made, he probably doesn't want to get down in history as the man who made the biggest mistake in Russian history.

Jamie....careful....to the vast majority of our fellows here, Putin Is weak because Obama said so, and any thought that he might go beyond Crimea is just old mean being paranoid. You know…that letting history teach you lessons about the past…that doesn’t matter at all…even though Putin is an astute observer of history, of is neighbors, of his enemies and foes.

He took Crimea without a shot…he’d be a fool NOT to continue.

Putin is smart enough to keep his finger off of the big red button. No one wins a nuclear war and he knows it. But a very messy symmetrical conventional war isn't an unrealistic scenario at this point.

I'm not sure how symmetrical a war between Russia and NATO would be. Such talk is only going to increase Finland's and Sweden's interest in joining NATO. I can't imagine Putin being that stupid. Annexing the Sudetenland, err, I mean Crimea, is one thing, but invading Poland, err, I mean Finland is certain to trigger war with the western allies.

So they found some dude who's been out of influence for 9 years (and was an economic adviser), and that's supposed to be taken as meaningful?

It's possible Putin is stupid enough to invade Finland or the Baltic States, anything can happen. But this strikes me as pandering to easily-excitable types who want to believe every bogeyman story about foreign threats.

Finland's Winter War made it clear that they do not want to receive the Russian cock, and the Continuation War showed that they were angry over Russia's attempted rape of Finland.

@ ckroberts

"But this strikes me as pandering to easily-excitable types who want to believe every bogeyman story about foreign threats."

I agree. Putin might keep screwing around in the Ukraine but he's not at all likely to turn west IMHO.

@ Automatic Diplomacy

I was going to say something along those lines but with less crude words. Nobody's suggesting that the Finns wouldn't put up a fight with their backs against the wall. The question is whether or not Putin has westward ambitions, which I seriously doubt.

As ckroberts suggested, this is likely neocon fearmongering.

Ambitions? I daresay he does. Is he stupid enough to act on those ambitions? Doubtful in the extreme. Still, it would probably behoove NATO to make absolutely clear that a move on Finland, Poland or the Baltic States will unleash the full force of the alliance upon Russia. That would be enough to prevent any foolish miscalculations I should think.

@ Ogion

I agree. Any westward movement by Putin should be the clear "red flag" that will provoke immediate and direct NATO counterattack.

Just fearmongering. Putin does everything for a reason. This is not a stupid man.

@GF - Uhhhh....WHY? Why the fuck should my brother put his life on the line for the Ukraine. It is such retarded idiocy to think it a good idea to go to war with Russia over the still-crumbling relics of the Soviet Empire -- that, mind you, were talking about a country that was too stupid to defend themselves.

Fuck that nonsense. If Europe wants to trade blows with Putin, the US can sit this one out. What benefit is it to us....more people to hate us? Ridiculous.

Um, krellin? I just said that all this was fearmongering and we won't actually be going to war with Russia. Putin would never let it get that far.

He was talking to me, goldfinger. Also, you're right. I think that Putin is not a stupid man and that he's not about to risk a shooting war with NATO over strategically insignificant places like the Baltic states, Poland, and Finland.

Can the West please stop pretending that it's 1984 and the Soviet Union has more tanks than God who are poised to drive straight through to the North Sea/English Channel/Atlantic?

@ krellin

By "westward movement" I was referring to any attack on the Baltic states, Poland, or Finland, which I view as highly unlikely. Personally, I don't give a flying fuck about the Ukraine.

Also, if you had bothered to read my first post, I said that the hypothetical counterattack should be spearheaded by someone other than the United States.

If anything erupts on a global level, the US should be more preoccupied with Red China. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Red Chinese wouldn't grab the South China Sea, the Republic of China, and maybe even South Korea and the Philippines if America blinked for one second. Because they would. Red China now is itching for violent imperialistic expansion. Red China is as dangerous (or perhaps even more dangerous) than late 1930s imperial Japan.

I agree that the Ukraine and most of Europe aren't worth American lives, especially right out of the gate, but there's not a whole hell of a lot of land between us and Red China. The Philippines, Alaska, our Pacific islands, and to a lesser extent Japan/South Korea *are* worth American lives.

GF - China won't touch any of them so long as there are US assets there. We have bases in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore....and possibly another soon in the Philippines.

There's absolutely no reason for China to attack South Korea or the Phillippines. The only reason China wants Taiwan back is because they consider the government in Taiwan to be a rebel enclave, a result of the Chinese civil war over sixty years ago.
As for the South China Sea, the feeling in China is that the seas were controlled by the Chinese throughout the history of China until the Europeans came and it's absurd that the neighbouring countries try to claim China's islands just because they happen to be near their shore.

gunfighter you have to understand issues from both sides' point of view. Hatemongering does not get you very far.

@ goldfinger

"(Red) China won't touch any of them so long as there are US assets there."

Yeah. Replace "(Red) China" with "Japan" and just say "the Philippines", and you have a statement that belongs in 1935 right there.

@ Gobbledydook

"There's absolutely no reason for (Red) China to attack South Korea or the Phillippines [sic]"

You see, it's kind of hard to be considered a serious superpower when your 1.2 billion people are confined to a relatively small corner of the world and you can't even finish the job of deposing your own legitimate government. Red China isn't above all-out balls-to-the-wall conquest and imperialism, especially in the event that the United States are distracted elsewhere, such as Eastern Europe.

"As for the South China Sea, the feeling in China is that the seas were controlled by the Chinese throughout the history of China until the Europeans came and it's absurd that the neighbouring countries try to claim China's islands just because they happen to be near their shore."

I understand the historical precedent argument, but that doesn't give the Red Chinese permission to break current international law at will just because there was a time before the Europeans showed up. Red China's claims in the South China Sea are absolutely ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that Red China isn't dangerous is smoking something they shouldn't be.

If China expanded violently in the southeast I doubt India would stay idle for too long either. Though an all out Russian offensive would change the situation so much that China might think this is their chance to expand in the Pacific, they have their international cooperation good guy narrative going on they wouldn't want to ruin that.
I think it's just as likely that China would join in on the defense against Russia, and by the time the war is over Siberia would be under Chinese "protection".

@ Gtlblx

That would be a realistic scenario, but China and Russia have been awfully cozy in recent years. I don't see any Russo-Chinese conflict in the near future unless relations go south in a hurry.

India is the wild card in my opinion. They could go either way as far as allying themselves with the United States or Red China. What I can't figure out is why the American government insists on maintaining relations with Pakistan and alienating India. India has proven to be a trustworthy ally and Pakistan has proved to be exactly the opposite.

Pravda (or its journalistic successor) has been reporting two things pretty consistently since about the time they invaded Crimea:

1. Concern about mistreatment of Russian nationals in Estonia.
2. Anecdotal reporting from Finland about their desire to become a "Russian Hong Kong"

FWIW

/\ I love the names they used.... Pravda? Russian for truth. Who can argue with truth, eh? ;)

2. Anecdotal reporting from Finland about their desire to become a "Russian Hong Kong"

...
I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

What happened to our forum putin? did he finally die of dehydration from posting all across the internet in support of his namesake and forgetting to drink water?

Putin33 was actually krellin the whole time.

@dirge

Please use the Missing Persons Advertisement Thread and only that thread for posts pertaining to missing persons.

Thank you,
The Mod Staff*

*: just kidding all of that was bullshit

but check that thread anyway for answers

Pretty sure I posted here 5 full minutes before KingCyrus violated copyright law and created the missing persons report.

Mod job evaluation for president Eden: below job expectations.

zzz

Brilliant. You are surely a master of witty repartee.

your scintillating wit is lost on my Neanderthalic proclivities