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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Tolstoy (1962 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
Rank the diplo territories in order of importance using Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)
Vote for the territories you feel are important by listing them in order of importance.
41 replies
Open
Agent K (0 DX)
18 Nov 10 UTC
Grand Festive High Wizard Tournament
Where is Abgemacht? What is the status of ye old tournament? I know my games are over
41 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
06 Dec 10 UTC
Crapity
Xmas approachs.
My wife wants to know what I want
I don't actually *want* anything.
Suggestions?
83 replies
Open
numberzero (127 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
Pushing on to win after a major CD is poor sportsmanship
Or after a first turn CD; especially if more than one. At least thats how I view it.
36 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
05 Dec 10 UTC
A December Holiday Survey
Please respond if you so choose.
44 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Austria needed.
We deliberately left you some room to grow, so its not like you're just jumping in to be killed
7 replies
Open
Hirsute (161 D)
05 Dec 10 UTC
The best books of all time
I've been working on a list of the supposed "best books of all time" to act as a sort of reading list for myself. I finished it tonight and I figured I'd post it here to see what people think.
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abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Dec 10 UTC
Yeah, Beowulf had huge character development.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
@abgemacht:

I've read parts of Moby Dick, not all of it...though, again, next semester I will, so we'll see, but from what I HAVE read--yes, I think it's THAT good.

And the same goes for The Canterbury Tales...really, The Miller's Tale is the most hilarious snippet I've read in a long time, and I LOVE how Chaucer is so sly with his language and descriptions to give the characters such qualities, physical and otherwise, that mean so much more and, when made as part of a joke, really DO add more to the joke (such as referring to a woman as having a gap in her teeth from, say, her "experience" with men...come on, all the stuffier authors in Classical Lit., it's nice to see someone had the presence of mind to make a cock-sucking joke...just saying...)

XD

@pastoralan:

PLEASE explaion to me WHY you'd not only rank The Great Gatsby in a Top 20, but at #1???

It is THE single most overrated work of fiction in American Literature, and easily one of the most overrated in the last two centuries or so.

Nick is BLAND as a narrator, and sounds incredibly stilted at times (actually, someone else you have on the list, Scout from To Kill A Mockingbird, is FAR better a narrator and more dynamic a character than Nick, her story is more interesting, she NARRATES the story in a more interesting and believable way...heck, I'll ask it right now--WHY does "Gatsby" so often get the reputation as a Great American Novel and one of the best of the 20th Century and Harper Lee's gem, for all the accolades it has received, has never, to the best of my knowledge, been called "The Great American Nove," and CERTAINY not as often as Gatsby's made that claim...Aticus Finch's closing speech in the trial ALONE...it's really "The So-So Gatsby," TKAM is far greater a work. Look at the characters side by side:

Scout vs. Nick as a narrator
Atticus, Jem, and her family vs. Tom and Daisy
Tom Robinson vs. Jay Gatsby
Mr. Ewell vs. ......Tom again, but even MORE over the top.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
And Achilles is BLAND?????

Exdplain THAT! He's a raging bull...before the film! ;)
jmeyersd (4240 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
It seems like there's a bit too much variety to really make fair comparisons. For instance, "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" can't properly be measured against "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" -- they are too dissimilar. The same goes for many of these books; they are different and so cannot truly be said to be "better" or "worse."

Having said that, I also think anything by Flannery O'Connor or Virginia Woolf should be axed immediately :)
Putin33 (111 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
I mean, I suppose they are 'bland' in the sense that they're not filled with self-doubt and constant angst and self-reflection like the trend of characters in literature in the modern period. They're not like Bilbo Baggins, who doesn't want to be a hero, and is just a creature that likes to eat a lot but somehow goes on an adventure to save Middle Earth. Instead they embrace their heroic role, and to me that makes them memorable.
Putin33 (111 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
I mean no disrespect to Tolkien, who helped spawn interest in the great Germanic epics and wrote one of the few literary criticisms of Beowulf that are worth anything.
iMurk789 (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
i dont know maybe it was just me but hrothgar beowulf and aeneas didnt seem like people
iMurk789 (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
they just dont seem as fully fleshed out, a lot feel like they have a single trait to their character and little else...they dont seem human to me
iMurk789 (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
maybe it was because i only read excerpts of the aeneid and beowulf...
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC


Ok, thx. for postings.

Used to love Sci-Fi. not interested by novels anymore really...
but this list is interesting... ;-)

May I talk about Osho books !?!?
...

(In NO Order:)

One Hundred Years of Solitude - Gabriel Garcia Marques !!! wow - read it in French - stupendous !
Thomas Mann - Magic Mountain. (not yet)
Ursala K. Leguin - Left Hand of Darkness. just OK.
Prefer : Stranger in a Strange Land
or most P.k. Dick, for ex.

98-Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland-Lewis Carroll
84-Medea-Euripides - have it, not read yet.
66-The Count of Monte Cristo-Alexandre Dumas - not yet - but 3 musket in French ! yippy.
75-Love in the Time of Cholera-Gabriel García Márquez (not yet)
43-Robinson Crusoe-Daniel Defoe - fun- prefered : Vendredi, ou les limbes du pacifique
49-The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe-C.S. Lewis - YES.
2 - To Kill a Mockingbird - Harper Lee ????
3 - 1984 - George Orwell - 1984 revisited is 'almost' better.
11 - Madame Bovary - Gustave Flaubert - YUCK ! imposed in school.
12 - Don Quixote - Miguel de Cervantes - LOL.
15 - Moby-Dick - Herman Melville - bah.
16 - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams -FUN FUN FUN !
17 - Hamlet - Williams Shakespeare - guess I'll pull it out of shelves ;-))
18 - Crime and Punishment - Fyodor Dostoevsky - heard about it...
22 - Fahrenheit 451 - Ray Bradbury - Illustrated man better - hhe's just so-so
The Road ???
The Jungle (sounds great - not yet)
Tale of Two Cities (sounds great - not yet)
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (sounds great - not yet)
Odysseus - ah, the Greeks!
Dune - just the 1st.
LoTR - Absolutely !
A Scanner Darkly !!! ;-))
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn - for young teens.
patizcool (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
TKAM is a great novel, and the reason that it is not considered "the great american novel" is because too many people don't care enough. None of the characters are really too relatable. Scout is relatable to a child, but Atticus is too intelligent and well-to-do, and who has been in Tom Robinson's position?

Great Gatsby is just flat out more relatable to people. People like to imagine themselves in that position, they could give a damn about how well they narrate a story. Also, fitzgerald does an excellent job of description in my opinion. Perhaps Nick was a bit bland (he was), but the book flows despite Nick's apparent lack of story telling ability. Fitzgerald was able to tell a story, just not through Nick.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Dec 10 UTC
@iMurk
"maybe it was because i only read excerpts of the aeneid and beowulf..."

Yes, this will do it. Beowulf does have a more fleshed-out character if you read it the whole way through.
mcbry (439 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
heh, now we'll add to the list anything that was required reading for junior or senior year high school. Here's what I read in high school or should have read in high school that I would still recommend. I read Tess, but it's not on my list. More-or-less chronologically:

1. The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway: not because it was the best, but because this was the first example of real literature I read that made me fall in love. Nowadays it reads like a bar tab, but who's judging. Everything Hemingway wrote is worth reading. I've read all his short-stories, A Farewell to Arms, For Whom the Bell Tolls, The Old Man and the Sea, and A Moveable Feast. I remember reading a story from A Moveable Feast over a solitary dinner in a restaurant and weeping.
2. the Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald: because it was a source of my own personal great awakening, and it was revolutionary. To be kind, it's possible I had a better teacher than others that are badmouthing it. This is a great book. Like to Kill a Mockingbird, it's practically a one-hit wonder, but it is great in its treatment of class, taste and morality in America. Without any doubt a great American novel that should still be on the top-ten list. Or maybe it should just share a spot with To Kill a Mockingbird. Both are essential. Please don't read Sallinger unless you really have nothing better to do.
3. The Heart of Darkness. Conrad. Brilliant. Conrad is easily on my top-ten authors list. I read Lord Jim this year, which is freely available on e-book, and which I think was the best I've read in two or three years. Interestingly, he's born Polish, not a fluent English speaker until his 20s. How's that for a top-ten pick in a particular language...
4. The Stranger by Albert Camus. Previously mentioned here as The Outsider. That's actually the title of another story (The Outsiders) that was made into a film starring unknown actors Matt Dillon, Ralph Macchio, Rob Lowe, Patrick Swayze. Emilio Estevez, and Tom Cruise by the unknown director Francis Ford Coppola. A book worth reading for any intelligent child under 13 by author S.E.Hinton, but not on my top 50 list.. The book The Stranger by Albert Camus was my personal introduction to a lot of important literary devices I hadn't experienced until that moment, not to mention existentialism, which fit me awfully well for a 14 year old. I don't consider Camus a top-10 author, but The Stranger and the Plague should both be required reading.
5. Herman Hesse, my introduction was "Siddhartha" and it was a revelation for me at 15. In my 20s I revisited Hesse with "Steppenwolf" and it was not unrewarding. Also not a top-10, but indispensable.
6. Dostoyevsky. Unfuckingbelievable. I majored in Literature and loved reading before and after college. He is my favourite author and hands down the most adept at bringing out the minutest corruption of the human soul. A good excuse to learn Russian. My introduction was Crime and Punishment. Today (I shit you not) I finished Brothers Karamazov (after 12 years of sporadic reading) and I deem it better. Without any doubt, Dostoyevsky never wrote anything that wasn't a masterpiece. If this weren't chronological, Bros Karamazov would be my number one. It is hands down the best and most instructional novel I ever read.
7. On the top 100 list there is one novel by JMCoetzee, "Disgrace", which I thoroughly enjoyed. I've read and enjoyed every thing he's published. He should have at least two in the top 100 because "Waiting for the Barbarians" is one of the best (short) novels I've ever read.
7. I was given the award for best English student of my high-school class, but I was not a good student. Many assigned works were ignored but read later, including Melville's Billy Budd. I am half-way through Moby Dick now and I love it. It should be about half it's original length, but it is a masterpiece. Other books I didn't read in highschool but should have: Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter (Hawthorne is a top-shelf American author), Bridge of San Luis Rey (Excellent!) by Thornton Wilder (3-times Pulitzer Prize), Silas Marner by George Elliot, whose "Middlemarch" is a frequent appearance on top-ten lists (It's waiting on my shelf...).
8. I love Tolkien, but I have to say this (opening a can of worms): There are novels that we enjoy and there are novels that form us. Tolkien does not form us. As a coherent narrative, The Hobbit is artistically superior to the Lord of the Rings. The Silmarillion is an exquisite exercise in myth making and a unique insight into the writer's process. But Tolkien is not an important writer. It's time to grow up. Same goes for Herbert (Dune) and Asimov (Foundation). Of the three, I can say without any hesitation that Asimov taught me some memorable and applicable lessons and so earns the one spot on my top-ten list that is reserved for Fantasy / Sci-Fi. Honourable mention also for Robert Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" and Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game". Card is a hack but that was a pretty good story that has stuck with me over the years. There is one sci-fi writer that has been mentioned several times here that I have not read: Ursula K Le Guin. She's definitely on my reading list.
9. Anything by Shakespeare. NOT Henry V. I've read it all, most of it's good.
10. Anything by Joyce. Try this: Start with Virginia Wolfe (Mrs. Dalloway, To the Lighthouse). Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man is for wankers, but worth reading nonetheless. This is hard going, not for the light-hearted.

There are some honourable mentions from other times (not uni):
The Death Ship by B. Traven, who is more famous for the (Excellent!) Hollywood adaptation of the Treasure of the Sierra Madre. Both are good introductions to serious anarchism in addition to good literature. Later check out Proudhom and Bakunnin (who predicted that if a Marxist party came to power, it would form the new elite).
Everything by Jorge Luis Borges. The master of the short story. Sorry Poe. Also everything by Poe. Interestingly, Borges opposed Communism on the grounds that the Individual was of primordial importance and the state was secondary. Marked me for life. Also Gabriel Garcia Marquez. My favourite, unsurprisingly, is 100 Years of Solitude. Other Spanish Lit: Cervantes (Don Quijote is seminal but didn't age well. Read when you're 10. La Celestina by Fernando De Rojas and Life is a Dream by Pedro Calderon De La Barca are also good intros to classical Spanish).
Long and random list of honourable mentions in no particular order and with lots and lots of absences: Douglas Adams, Dante, Defoe, Delillo, Stephen Dobyns, Faulkner, William Gass, Gardner, Greene, Gogol, Kafka, Lao She, Naipul, John Kennedy O'Toole, Pamuk, Pynchon, Rushdie, Marquis de Sade, Sterne, Steinbeck , Vonnegut, David Foster Wallace...

That's novels and stories, no poets or philosophy / non-fiction.

My newly updated reading list includes about half of what Putin33 listed (the half I haven't read yet).
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Dec 10 UTC
ARGH! Spaces inbetween your paragraphs, please. I feel like my face just smashed into a wall of text.
fiedler (1293 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
@pastoralan: "I accidentally left in fiedler's asinine comment about "One Hundred Years of Solitude."

Well I guess that's the risk you take when you cut and paste other people text, hardly a reason to be so rude about it.

I think it would be hard work to find a person in the street who has heard of this book, nevermind read it.
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Some fav. sci-fi: (in no order)

Stranger in a Strange Land
or most P.k. Dick ... :-) ;-) ;-)
most Larry Niven
James Bliss - Cities in Flight
Philip Jose Farmer- To Your Scattered Bodies Go
Dosadi experiment - & the Jesus Incident !!! this one rocks... (Herbert)
'an obscure one about greek gods - creation myth - and the death of our world' - forgot title & author!
Stanilaw Lem
Frederick Pohl
Foundation series
Roger Zelazny
Rendevous With Rama by Arthur C. Clarke - visionary (at least ) of what might be 'soon' !
Samuel R. Delany - Dhalgren
!!! A Canticle for Leibowitz !!! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Canticle_for_Leibowitz
Gateway by Frederik Pohl

...

can I add Huxley's ISLAND ! haha

...





mcbry (439 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
wuss.
patizcool (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
If you would like to read Joyce (Ulysses is supposedly a must read, though I admit I have not yet gotten to it), begin with his short stories. If you dive straight into Joyce, or even worse, Ulysses, your head will hurt for days!
mcbry (439 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
If you run into a person on the street who hasn't heard of Hundred Years of Solitude, they will not be giving you an informed opinion.

meh.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Dec 10 UTC
@mcbry

Consider the can open : )

"There are novels that we enjoy and there are novels that form us. Tolkien does not form us....But Tolkien is not an important writer. It's time to grow up. Same goes for Herbert (Dune) and Asimov (Foundation)."

This is outrageously pretentious, imho. Who are you to tell me what novels have helped form me? SF was a huge influence in me deciding I wanted to be an engineer. I didn't just want to read about these cool things in the future, I wanted to help make them possible. Same goes for Card, Dick, Heinlein, Clarke, Gibson, etc. I suppose Gatsby formed me a little, too, in the sense that I never want to be like anyone in that novel.
fiedler (1293 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
what? nice english.
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Oh !...

JULES VERNE !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_vogt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startide_Rising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gibson#Neuromancer
...
fiedler (1293 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
good call Dharma
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Dec 10 UTC
@Dharm

Yeah, Dick is pretty fantastic. I'm always shocked by how many block-busters were written by him and yet he's so unknown.
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC

camus is boring to all hell - try Le Petit Prince !
Hesse ? bah-ok
Tolkein - beautiful 'adventure'-i.e. escapism.
mcbry (439 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
:) Of course it's pretentious. This is a thread about the best books ever written. Did you get lost? Your list sucks, btw. :)

eh, seriously, eh, ok. We can go ahead and put Ole Yeller and Where the Red Fern Grows on there. Encyclopedia Brown? Anyone? Anyone?
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
@abgemacht - depends in what circles !!! some of his books are mind-rockers ;-)
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
hmm. the Dictionnary ;-) (only if it has etymologies !! LOL
Dharmaton (2398 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
well... I'm into 'non-fiction' & spiritual books' mind you ;-)
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Dec 10 UTC
@Dharm

Yes, I suppose that's very true.

In fact, I'd say that a good way to differentiate from people who say they're fans of SF and people who actually are is to ask them about Dick.

@mcbry

I tend to clash very hard with people who major in literature, so I'm not surprised by that at all.

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237 replies
Draugnar (0 DX)
05 Dec 10 UTC
World of Warcraft - Cataclysm drops Tuesday morning.
While I will continue playing games,my forum participation will be dwindling. Send a PM if you need me.
3 replies
Open
deathpod (102 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Mod request. Is this the right place?
Sorry if this is the wrong place.
Game Id # 4098. Looking for an unpause hopefully. One of our players has been AWOL for 13 days and we would like to just have the game unpaused and let him slide into civil disorder so we can finish.
7 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
Greek gods and goddesses
Hi all I was wondering if you had any clip art of this nature. No nudity. To be used in a game I'm developing for a 6th grade class. Pleas post a link if you have any.
8 replies
Open
patizcool (100 D)
06 Dec 10 UTC
wta gunboat
Come and join. We got 2, starting in 25 minutes, let's go people

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=43500
1 reply
Open
figlesquidge (2131 D)
28 Nov 10 UTC
Wikileaks
With wikileaks apparently on the verge of another major release of classified information, it felt about time the webDip community discussed the issue:
Should wikileaks publish sensitive information they are given, and should it be censored?
204 replies
Open
The Lord Duke (3898 D)
05 Dec 10 UTC
Passwords
How do you find out a password if you would like to join a game?
8 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
05 Dec 10 UTC
Come play with me
gameID=43452 please join if you can retreat and build quickly to avoid dragging a game on unnecessarily
0 replies
Open
ormi (100 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
fast game start soon check in!!!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=43360
5 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
Has America Become the Evil Empire?
Well, has it?
55 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
01 Dec 10 UTC
Should I have a problem with this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_village

With regard the 'do you guys find this offensive thread' i came across this idea....
54 replies
Open
Malleus (2719 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
Sitter etiquette
I need to get a sitter, but I've never gotten one before. What's the etiquette on that? I was thinking of going through old games and finding people that I got along well with. Is that the best bet for finding someone?
11 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
Happy Holidays! (And WHat I DON'T Like To See...)
Happy Channukah! (a day late...) ;) And Christmas to come...but controversy--DOES Santa Claus really exist? Oh, and then there's the matter of idiots who, instead of having a good, civil conversation (like we often have here) just decide to do the real-world equivalent of shout and troll... http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20101202/ts_yblog_thelookout/atheists-slick-ad-campaigns-sometimes-meet-with-resistance So let's talk here...what do you think?
18 replies
Open
JetJaguar (820 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
Russia 2018, Qatar 2022
Anyone else have their opinion of FIFA's leadership sink to never before imagined lows today?
110 replies
Open
Dan Wang (1194 D)
03 Dec 10 UTC
What are public-messaging-only games like?
In your experience, do players in public-messaging-only games choose to ally and coordinate in full view of the other players, or is it more like a gunboat game but with the ability to negotiate draws amongst opposing factions, etc? Or somewhere in between?
11 replies
Open
airborne (154 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
Oh Civ how lowly you have fallen!
Civ V may be one of the biggest disappointment in my gaming career. No more religions! No more multible leaders! No more +/- numbers dip-o! No stable gameplay! No more crazy number of civs! On and on...and I thought Black Ops needs a couple patches, gees
18 replies
Open
Indybroughton (3407 D(G))
03 Dec 10 UTC
GhostRatings - Take the Pledge...
...take the challenge.

I challenge every one of the top 100, as well as any player who moves up 20 spots or more, to pledge to contribute $5 via PayPal to this website. Sign your name to this thread to pledge! I'll start: INDYBROUGHTON
18 replies
Open
pathannarris (599 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
World Game needs players
Anyone interested in playing a semi slow world game? We need two more players in the next 15 minutes. It is called:

Conquer the World!
1 reply
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Dec 10 UTC
car free cities?
see sometimes i'm a little crazy...

This got me thinking : http://www.oecd.org/document/46/0,3343,en_21571361_44315115_46566894_1_1_1_1,00.html
28 replies
Open
jonK99 (133 D)
04 Dec 10 UTC
Who is up for a 5 min. game?
Who is up for a 5 min. game?
2 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
03 Dec 10 UTC
Is there a Mod in the house?
Help
5 replies
Open
superchunk (4890 D)
02 Dec 10 UTC
Various script errors in game recently causing inability to set full moves.
Any idea what is causing this as its preventing the setting of convoys, at least for me?
12 replies
Open
cannonfodder5 (100 D)
01 Dec 10 UTC
North Sea action
Which power has the longest staying power (pardon the repetition) in the North Sea corridor? Does France see itself in the mix?
23 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Dec 10 UTC
Rank the diplo territories in order of importance.
You get one vote per post, and one post per page.
29 replies
Open
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