@ Chaqa: When did someone last call you a whore or a slut for forgetting to lock your car?

No, elementary students cannot carry guns because they're just going to go about shooting each other. However, there should still be precautions. I went to school in China for 4 years in 2 schools. Each one had a guardhouse at the gates.

And again, no one is blaming the victim. I've explained that countless, times, and Chaqa explained it again above.

Jamiet, perhaps not, but there are countless other cases if you make a simple google search, and there are countless others who have not yet been exonerated. Notice that all of these vindications only happened by accident.

Telling women to pay attention to their surroundings and not get drunk in a bar is not equivalent to calling those who don't sluts or whores. Have you personally witnessed that happen to your 4 friends?

And someone who forgets to lock his/her car would definitely be called careless at best.

I don't think that "dressing slutty" is even likely to lead to rape. I'd guess what the woman is wearing has almost no factor in who a rapist "chooses", considering most rapes are perpetrated by people the victim knows.

Again Chaqa, how does that help those who are unable to defend themselves? Think about it for a second, many rapes that occur are on younger high school and college women. Younger individuals make bad choices. Youth feels invincible, and it's due to undeveloped brains and lack of experience. Add in younger girls under 16 or so who wouldn't have a chance against a grown man. Then throw in fact that many attacks require a gun pointed at you. Do you really expect a girl to be anything other then shot if they attack a rapist with a gun?

Sure, trying to be smart is good advise for anyone. But saying it to a rape victim is not the answer, and it *is* placing the blame on them to some degree. Army bases take precautionary steps. There have been shootings there too. Precautionary steps are wonderful, but they aren't the answer. If a solution doesn't help everyone, then it isn't the right solution.

Teaching all men to treat women properly from a young age, now that's a solution that helps all potential victims. Increasing penalties for rapists, again another one. Increased surveillance cameras and police presence in dangerous areas. Those are solutions that help all potential victims. Do you understand the difference?

The fact that young girls cannot protect themselves does not mean older women should not learn to do so. That is like saying because there are poor people, everyone must be poor. And yes, sometimes rapists will carry weapons. That is why there are other precautions that I have already described to avoid meeting a rapist in the first place. In fact, we teach young girls about stranger danger. That, in itself, is itself a precaution, one, in fact, that some women should learn from. Army bases do have shootings, but they are less deadly and less frequent because of those precautions. And not all solutions should be one-size-fits-all. I already addressed that in my previous paragraph.

And again, men already KNOW that rape is wrong. Education is NOT the solution. Rapists can't be TAUGHT not to rape because they already KNOW it is wrong. Their innate desire overcomes whatever sense of morality they have. Penalties for rapists are quite high as is. One of the articles I linked to about false accusations had an accused rapist sentenced to 35 years in prison. I do agree with increased surveillance and police presence, but then people will just complain that their country is becoming a totalitarian police state like China. In fact, thinking about it, police and surveillance is probably the best solution, considering that China has quite a low rape crime rate.

Maybe we should just have police casually shoot rapists instead of black people.

"Teaching all men to treat women properly from a young age, now that's a solution that helps all potential victims."

Bullshit. Why do you assume men are crazed rapists by nature and need to be taught that rape is wrong? That's as bad as blaming the victim.

Teaching men how to be respectful toward women isn't somehow acknowledging that every man is a rapist, it is simply teaching men to be polite toward women instead of being patriarchal, harassing them, catcalling them, or heaven forbid assaulting or raping them. It's not an insult to your manhood to be taught as a young boy and onward that "throwing like a girl" is not an insult or that "being a pussy" and getting emotional is somehow immasculating. Likewise, it doesn't hurt anyone to talk about issues like rape and domestic violence before they become a problem.

So why are men the only ones who need this information? Why not teach women that they can't expect men to be the breadwinner, they can't hit men because they're a girl, etc?

There's no reason women shouldn't be taught how to make a living on their own and be respectful toward men. I never made that claim.

Lol, women don't grow up expecting men to be the breadwinner. They were told that their role in society was to stay at home and take care of children rather than work. And no one should be hitting anyone. Violence is wrong. Come on Chaqa..

The amount of ridiculous shit in this thread...

No one tells people to train themselves to fight off murder or else it's their fault for talking to strangers or walking home alone at night.
Rape doesn't only happen in shifty side roads, it mostly happens between people who know each other. And it IS preventable and it CAN be taught to everyone that sexual harassment is wrong. But when our legal systems tell us that you're very likely to not get convicted for sexual assault, then we're not teaching people that.

Everyone is missing my points. It is inherently wrong that men need to be taught that rape is wrong. It is extremely sexist and boggles my mind that the same "progressive" types of people who try to say blaming the victim is wrong think men need to be taught rape is wrong.

I'm honestly shocked that all of you are really believing that men need to be taught rape is wrong. How fucking warped is your worldview?

...should men be taught that rape is right?

I'll tell you what's ridiculous-- the amount of self-hating men on this forum.

bo_sox, If serial killers aren't even being given capital punishment, there is no reason for rapists to receive it.

Men already know to respect women. If you would only read before you spout BS, I have said countless times that rapists aren't people who don't know that what they're doing is wrong-- their desire for power or whatever drives them overcomes whatever morality they have. The patriarchy is a feminist invention-- no such societal structure exists. Men know that harassment, rape, and assault are wrong; again, it is not a matter of "teaching". As for catcalling, what is so wrong about catcalling? I personally do not practice it because I have an introverted personality, but it is meant as and should be considered a compliment. Women frequently comment on how buff a man is. Should that be considered objectionable as well? As for throwing like a girl, it is a biological fact that, on average, women, due to producing estrogen instead of testosterone, do indeed have less external muscle. That is why there are men and women compete in separate teams. I do agree that men should be allowed to express their feeling more freely. We do talk about rape and domestic violence. Isn't that what we're doing right now?

Studies have shown that women are the perpetrators of the majority of domestic abuse cases. However, when men reveal the violence, they're laughed at and mocked, and their court cases are dismissed. This leads to victims being unwilling to report violence, creating underreporting far more severe that in rape cases.

DemonOverlord, show me a woman in the Western world who is told to stay at home and take care of children. The vast majority of housewives in the developed world CHOOSE to stay at home.

Again, no one BLAMES women for being raped just like no one BLAMES a person for being murdered. However, in both cases, taking precautions can reduce the risk. And yes, rape frequently happens between acquaintances at dates or bars, etc. That is why people need to refrain from becoming drunk and remain vigilant of their drinks. The risk of rape CAN be reduced, but it cannot be 100% prevented. In fact, even the risk of rape in a society can be reduced with increased police and surveillance. That sexual harassment is wrong CANNOT be taught because harassers KNOW they are wrong. They don't care. Our legal system does not let rapists go. Those that they let go are innocent. And the attitude that those who are accused of rape must be rapists is exactly the problem. It is why so many innocent men are jailed and why those who are acquitted are faced with shunning from friends, many of whom assume that the "victim" must be telling the truth.

We're just fucking monkeys in shoes. We need to be taught everything.

bo_sox They don't need to be taught either. The knowledge that rape is wrong is INTRINSIC.

Bo can't dispute my point so he makes a joke. I think my work here is done.

I wish it were intrinsic, because then it wouldn't have happened eight times last year at my school and another five so far this year that I'm aware of.

You didn't make a point. You disputed our point by saying "no, you're wrong" followed by what you think without any evidence or anything else.

Also, Chaqa, if you think the key to winning a webDip debate is getting me to quit, you are setting the standard waaaaaaaaaaaay too low for yourself. I'm like a cow in Runescape. I'm not that formidable unless you're a total n00b.

bo_sox I have explained it countless times, and I'll explain it again. Men (and women) rape not because they don't know it's wrong. They rape because whatever their motive for rape is overcomes their morality.

It's difficult indeed to defeat an opponent who ignores arguments and repeats the same thing over and over again.

I think the headline here is that they've discovered a way that science isn't aware of to pass on knowledge intrinsically. We should really be harnessing this power to revolutionise the education system.

You must take on Marco Rubio's oration style.

No, Walras. Recognition of right and wrong is intrinsic. Do you hear people talking about teaching murderers that murder is wrong? No, they already know it. And even if it isn't intrinsic, you can't get to reproduction age without being told that rape is wrong in a society like ours.