National SOCIALIST German Workers Party

Yeah, if you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a horse have?

Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

Calling Nazis socialists doesn't make them socialists.

The Strasserite wing of the NDSAP, which an argument can be made that they took the socialism part seriously, was purged violently by Hitler in 1934. (While he was at it, he also had the communists and the social democrats imprisoned and/or shot)

Therefore, the NDSAP under Hitler's leadership was anything but socialist.

So unless you have something else, I think we're done here.

Seriously sbyvl thats equivocation man. You know better.

It's what they called themselves. People don't call themselves socialist unless they are a leftist of some sort.

By that argument, the Democratic Forces for the Liberation of of Rwanda are democratic, and interested in liberation.

Sbyvl, your argument needs to actually... you know. Have an argument.

Repeating a point over and over that I've already shot to pieces isn't convincing anybody.

*sigh* This is what I get for actually trying to have an intellectual discourse with this guy. I really should know better.

We're talking about a specific ideology here, and the polices of the Nazis indicate their extreme leftism.

Any chance of an answer on how free trade is a socialist plot?

It is part of the progressives' plan to establish a global government.

How?

Oh boy, this thread is pandora's box

Well? How does free trade lead to world government?

And how is it socialist?

Again, I've made a case that the Nazi support of big business and their destruction of unions makes them right wing. Oh, and their murder and imprisonment of leftist leaders (KPD/SPD)

Your points... are to repeatedly harp on the "socialist" part of their name.

Also, after reading the other thread where Sbyvl tries to insult my sexual preferences (go go little spoon!), I think I can say my work here is done.

Nazis were:

Authoritarian/fascist central government which made all the decisions for industry. They didn't support big business...they CONTROLLED big business...when big business is nationalized and becomes a part of the government in all but name, it *is* part of the government.

This is 100% antithetical to Right-wing politics, which believe in:

Minimal Government
Individual freedom of choice - not central authority
Big Business FREE from government interaction

Jack Klein...good lord...I've taken down Thucy and made him confess his sins. Must I now do the same to you.

You can try to redefine terminology and rewrite history to suit your *perverted* fantasy....and much like Thucy, you can do all these things to try to disassociate yourself from the *obvious* connection between your personal belief system and the obvious *evil* it has represented in history...but you will fail.

Just confess your sins now and make it easier on all of us.

Further, the Nazis didn't eradicate unions...they forced everyone in to a *single* government controlled union, the National Socialist Industrial Workers Union.

Care to tell any more lies we can debunk, Jack Klein?

Don't want this to get buried. How is free trade a socialist plot for world government?

By your definition of "right wing" perhaps they're not.

But, news flash, the concept changes. The right in Germany, which included them the DNVP, the monarchists, the Army, Hindenburg, von Papen, etc. They brought Hitler to power. They allied with him. They made policy that favored the employer over the employee (herren im haus, master in the house).

The Social Democrats, the Communists... they were opposed to Hitler. They were fucking SHOT because of it.

Basically, you're making an assertion that is directly contradicting the vast majority of historians who have studied that period of time. (Citations incoming: Fritzsche, Peter. Germans into Nazis, Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1998; Eatwell, Roger, Fascism, A History, Viking-Penguin, 1996. pp. xvii-xxiv, 21, 26–31, 114–140, 352. Griffin, Roger, "Revolution from the Right: Fascism," in David Parker, ed., Revolutions and the Revolutionary Tradition in the West 1560-1991, London: Routledge, 2000)

So unless you have something else to bring, I think we're done here.

Krellin: you've no doubt seen the quandrant-based political tests that show the left-right dynamic with an authoritarian/libertarian axis?

What you're describing and attributing to 'conservative' is right wing libertarianism. What the Nazis were were right with authoritarian. (In fairness, Stalinism was left wing authoritarianism, for example).

The right and the left both have their authoritarian incubuses we have to deal with and ensure we don't repeat. I don't think you are any more a right wing authoritarian than I am a left wing authoritarian, to be clear.

But to claim that the right with authoritarianism of the Nazi and Fascist parties is anything but that is sheer historical revisionism.

"The Social Democrats, the Communists... they were opposed to Hitler. They were fucking SHOT because of it."

You might as well say Mensheviks weren't socialists since the Bolsheviks shot them. But apart from that brilliant point I'm gonna stay away from this tar baby.


Still, to keep it from being buried. Sbyvl36, how is free trade a socialist plot to impose world government?

JACK....since you are in the United States...and you are trying to slander the "Right", we are assuming you are trying to tie US Right wing politics to Nazis.

Typical liberal...trying to pervert common language to support his demented ideas.

SO...since you have admitted it, German Right is much more aligned with US Left wing politics....thank you.

We appreciate you honesty, and admission that your favored Liberal political party in the US is more closely aligned with Nazi Germany than are US Conservatives.

Invictus: True. However, prior to the Night of Long Knives, there was a wing of the NDSAP that took the socialist position seriously... the Strasserite wing.

Gregor Strasser was shot, and that wing of the party was crushed. At that point, the party platform points that the industrialists that were financing the Nazis didn't like were excised, leaving the right wing faction of the NDSAP firmly in charge until 1945 when things really didn't work out for them.

<prediction> Jack will splutter and bluster, froth a bit, say I am wrong and twisting his words and he didn't say what he said...etc etc and come back with another head on assault...but the words speak for themself.

I'm not taking the bait, Jack Klein. I think a good argument can be made that, on an economic front at least, fascism and national socialism had a lot in common with the left. It's just that these movements have become such examples of irredeemable, absolute evil in people's minds (especially people on the left) that a sober discussion divorced from emotion is impossible. Another barrier is that crazy people like Sbyvl36 are the people bringing the subject up most of the time.


But this is all I'll say on it since this is the political equivalent of talking about angels dancing on pins. All I want to know is how free trade is supposed to be a socialist plot to impose world government.

Please don't put words in my mouth, Krellin.

I think I went out of my way to present a fair and balanced (haha), outlook on authoritarian politics. If you want to discuss this without trying to conduct a hatchet job, I'm more than willing to do so.

I'll say here openly and clearly: While the Nazi and Fascist politics reside on the right wing of the spectrum, this is not intended to imply openly or otherwise that the Republican Party or any legitimate right wing politics in the US are fascist or National Socialist.

Likewise, I don't think any rational person would claim there are any left wing organizations or parties of any substance that advocate for Stalinist policies or politics.

If anything, the only step towards authoritarian politics is decidedly bipartisan (the NSA and the eternal war on terror). Which I oppose, I might add. In that regard, our last two Presidents are equally culpable, to my great sorrow.

I mean, I guess we should be happy. Our politicians have found the one thing that can be bipartisan on... spying on Americans.

Jack - I'll grant you all your last post points. See....I'm a reasonable, fuzzy little puppy.

Spying on Americans...killing untried civilians with drones...fighting over broken hills and poppy fields...raising taxes without benefit to the general populace...providing corporate tax benefits to the highest bidder...compalining about off-shore tax shelters without ever fixing them....yes, we indeed have a very bi-partisan government.

20 years ago, I would not have said this, as at that time there was much more differentiation between the parties.

I just agreed with Jack. I feel a little ill. I have to go to bed.

Good night. :) jk

Sbyvl36, how is free trade a socialist plot to impose world government?

I would also like an answer to Invictus's question.