Booker T. Washington described self-serving individuals like Sharpton aptly over a century ago.

“There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.”

FYI, A court of law found Sharpton guilty of defamation associated with the Brawley hoax and rendered a six-figure judgment against him. He was on the wrong side of the justice system in the Duke Lacrosse case as well.

So EMAC -- you agree with me that racism in America is kept alive and thriving by *exactly the people that claim to be fighting against it? Such as Al Sharpton....and a little more locally, Thucy?

Krellin, my post was directed at all Sharpton and black race baiters like him. Racism is alive and well around the world. I encountered the most racism in a culture in Japan. I can't imagine more racism than an ethnic Chinese or Korean in Japan. Mexico has substantial racism against indigenous people and Central Americans. An Algerian Muslim faces significant racism in France as do Turks in Germany. The racism of Hutus towards Tutsis in Rwanda eclipses just about anything.

So no I don't agree with the point in your post that racism in America would not thrive or disappear without race baiters like Sharpton. White against black racism and black against Hispanic racism exists independent of race baiters. Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Chris Matthews, and Bill Maher run a thriving grievance industry for their selfish benefit that helps prevent our society from putting racism behind us, but they don't constitute its source in my opinion. I find those four and people like them some of the most reprehensible in America.

You forgot white against hsipanic and black against white and hispanic against everyone else. :-)

The question isn't "does racism exist". We know it does because there are skinheads and modern Black Panthers and the like. The question is "Does systemic racism exist" and I would argue it does *not* as a whole, but *may* in specific communities or parts of the country.

No argument Draugnar. I couldn't list them all.

Al Sharpton, Chris Matthews, and Jesse Jackson do not discuss real racism. These three stooges simply race bait for their own profit.

To be clear I'm not a great fan of Sharpton or Jackson either.

For better race activists look at Jane Elliot, Beverly Tatum, Tavis Smiley, Cornel West.

"Race" activists....think about that.

Not "equality" activists or "peace" activists or "can't we all get along" activists...

They crest conflict for a living.

Crest - create.

Krellin come on. You know what it means. It means someone who advocates for racial equality.

No +1's for the pumpkin joke? He really does look like a November jack-o-lantern.

@Emac - Krellin specifically asked about the race baiters keeping racism alive in *America*, not around the world. Stay on target dude.

Thucy - I reject your characterization, based upon the evidence of their ACTIONS and their RESULTS, not in an isolated incident, but every time they stir the racial pot of hatred.

If they wanted equality, they would be Racial Equality advocates. This is not, at all, what they advocate. I'm sorry if the facts of their actions is in disagreement with your hopes and dreams. MLK would find Al Wharton and friends to be disgusting perversions of his vision.

Sharpton, not Wharton...damned autocorrect...

Draugnar,

I didn't address race baiting outside the United States. I did mention racism outside the United States. I don't know anything about race baiting in other countries, but I do not about racism in other countries.

I was referring to this statement by you in response to krellin.

"Racism is alive and well around the world."

Krellin do you even know who the four people I posted about are?

I am familiar specifically with Tavis Smiley and Cornel West, and I have heard them speak many times, as a matter of fact, Thucy.

I am unaware of the others.

My statements stand; they do not seek "equality", they seek to promote a particular race, generally speaking...unless what they say in front of the cameras is a lie?

And, regardless, the most outspoken "leaders" in this country right now, the ones first and foremost in front of the press and the country at large, and the ones that rally people to the streets are Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. You can dismiss these two....again, because they don't fit your carefully constructed (though faulty) argument...but you only do yourself a disservice by ignoring truth when it offends you.

(By the way, Thucy, I'm waiting for you to scold your little pal....and you know what I'm talking about. Or are you so seething with anger at his outbursts that you can't type. Errrr....nahhhh....I doubt that's the case...)

Draug, Do you think that race baiters keep racism alive here? I don't. Too many rednecks in the South where racism is a way of life, and in the hood out here in the LA where they don't even listen to the race baiters like Sharpton, but would pop a cap in a "spic" just for their race.

I think race baiters encourage the racists to come out in droves. I think institutional racism at a national societal level no longer exists and race baiters are determined to convince everyone it does. I think President B.O. and the USAG are as bad as the race baiters when they cimment on a local incident that had shit to do with racism becomes a national call of "see, whitey is all racist" and I think Congressmen that compare a political party to "southern crackers" and don't face censure stir up even more anti-white hatred.

Racism individually and in some.communities is alive and well, but race baiters make it out that the "crackers" or "honkies" are all racist and actually turn the black community/society into a racist group at large.

Who are you referring to, krellin? YJ?

Check Sbvyl's copycat gay-bash thread. Addressed him.

Anyway, you should google Jane Eliot, and watch a youtube video of her.

Meanwhile, in the country where there is no racism:

Racist Texas politicians:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/09/can-the-republicans-get-a-handle-on-their-bigots.html

Symbol of racial hate and nation founded to preserve racial slavery to be flown prominently in Virgina:
http://www.styleweekly.com/TheReportersNotebook/archives/2013/08/06/giant-confederate-flag-to-welcome-visitors-to-richmond

Still segregated America:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/08/us-usa-poll-race-idUSBRE97704320130808

To that last point I suggest to krellin especially that you have a look at the book "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together In the Cafeteria?" which is by Beverly Tatum, a psychologist and one of the people I mentioned above.

Thucy - you are the least honest person I have ever talked to. Intellectually dishonest - you constantly lie and pretend you don't understand things when confronted with facts you don't like or examples that hurt your arguments. You equivocate and rationalize away the bad behavior of people you would normally consider to be "allies" in your causes, and then paint your "opponents" with such a broad brush as to make them guilty of the entirety of sin for all of society.

I have children, Thucy - you reflect, with almost perfect accuracy, the unstable and inconsistent mind of a child still trying to find his or her way.

I'd rather argue with a brick wall.

There is no opint commenting on anything you say, because *when* I poke a hole in your arguments, you will deny the evidence, make up some lie, say it doesn’t matter, etc. As does a child...

""Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together In the Cafeteria?""

BECAUSE THEY MADE THE PERSONAL CHOICE TO DO SO.

Krellin that's the title of a book.

My god.

And to be crystal clear, I think you mean YJ but I'm not sure, I'm pretty sure some other people have insulted you these past few days.

To be clear I don't approve of it and if you'd like me to I apologize on their behalf.

But you know, in the name of personal responsibility, maybe deal with them and don't bring me into it.

By the way, I'm not even sure what you insults to me intelligence are in response to. Can you clarify?

Yes, Mr. Retardo, I do know that. None the less, I choose to answer the question...no need to read a book. I've actually sat in a cafeteria and witnesses this myself, whilst sitting at my mixed-race table, no less...

As for who I meant....no worries, mate. Your record of hypocrisy and selective outrage is still intact.

Go on about your day. Go classify some people and report back to me on how your various artificially adjusted behavior mechanics worked with them.

You won't even engage me at this point.

I believe that says more about you than me.

You refuse to look into the resources I provide mere days after accusing me of not backing up my claims.

You belittle me and refer to me as a child even as I apologize for other people who are insulting you.

You refuse to so much as read a book summary or Google a name.

And yet you accuse me of being the one who says nothing, goes in circles, and self-justifies.

I *DID* engage you, Thucy...you just don't like the answer so you pretend it doesn't exist.

That's why I call you intellectually dishonest.

Sad part is, you aren't lyign to me...you are lying to YOURSELF. But given the confessions of your upbringing, you are **highly** trained at lying to yourself in order to hide the things you don’t like (or pretend you don’t like).

Hey Thucy... What about Mr. "White "Crackers"" in congress? You get on Texas politicians but your side has their own cocksuckers who can't help but spew vile hate speech too, ya' know?

<do not like...hurts my arguments....crackkkkle...sizzle....robot brain...shit-tt-t-t-t-t-t-ing down...>

What are you even getting at? Can you reiterate what I'm being dishonest about, and what I'm avoiding, so that I can actually have a chance to respond and prove you wrong that I'm a liar?

Speaking of "kafkatrapping" lol.

Also, Draugnar, let me respond this way:

Anyone who thinks that African Americans have a privileged place in society is delusional.

Rangel is a windbag slimeball politician, Congress does not punish its own the way they should, though they did censure him that one time for being a corrupt leech I think.

But if you think what he said is the most important racial problem facing America, you really are privileged.

Also what do you mean "my side?"

I've already gone over the fact that I don't identify as a democrat. There are bigots in both parties, as well as your general slimebags and misgynists, like Anthony Weiner.

I'm not promoting some kind of electoral agenda, I want to see oppression addressed in the country I call my home.

I wonder why people forgot all about Floyd Lee Corkins.
He was the self-identified "liberal activist" who entered the Family Research Center in Washington D.C. with a 9MM pistol and 100 rounds of ammunition with the intention to shoot everyone in the building because the Christian organization opposed gay marriage.
Corkins also had 15 Chik-Fil-A sandwiches because he later admitted he wanted to “smother Chick-fil-A sandwiches in [the] faces” of the people he planned to shoot.
Corkins shot one man and right before he did it he said "I don't like your politics."
Corkins found the FRC on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website "hate map" which was a list of organizations opposed to gay marriage. So you can't oppose gay marriage on principle you can only oppose it based on hate?

I support gay marriage but I understand and respect the opinions of my own relatives who oppose it.
Just don't forget that a "liberal" and a "gay rights activist" found a list of groups to "hate" on a "liberal" website and went their with the intent to kill as many people as he could and stuff Chik-Fil-A sandwiches in their mouths because they didn't follow the right politics.
This is the result of irrational liberal hate.

Thucy - you disengenuous lying bastard - name one Republican candidate you would vote for, if you do not have any strong political affiliation. Another classic example of Thucy reflecting and lying because see suddenly finds he is on the wrong side of another argument.

It must be hell constantly spinning new lies to wiggle out of another lost argument....gets hard to track your own lies after a while....but we do, and will use them against you.

SUGGESTION THUCY: Try living by principle and truth - then you don't have to lie and spin constantly. Remember when you pretended you didn't know what "society" meant? Lol. God.you are hilarious!

Excuse me? You accuse me of hatred?

How dare you.

To Krellin:

I would have voted Jon Huntsman over Obama. John McCain is a good man again now that he is not a slave the primary of 2008.

But again, I don't really give a shit about party politics.

Also, I stand by what I said about not knowing what society meant. It's a very loose term, and you know it. Different people mean different things by it, to me it means the whole mass of the population and their ways. To you it seems only to mean public institutions. Which itself is a loose term.

Blah blah blah. Thucy - you are a fucking idiot. You constantly publish all this long-winded bullshit, with all your cutsie little labels for people that don't look like you, and yet somehow you don't know what the word "society" means? YOu apparently have access to a vast library of research, as you constantly refer to these studies....but you dn't have a simple dictionary? You don't know what "society means?

You are a fucking **retard** thucy. It's seriously like talking to a 5 year old.

You continuously lie - to the point where I honestly don't believe anything you say - you claim you don't believe in politics? Bullshit...it's an amazing thing, then, because you seem to have a selective outrage that is very political.

You have not only openly admitted to the community that you are a blatant racist, but you continue to be one as you first and foremost label everyone in your life by the color of their skin.

I just wanted to make sure that is understood by all just catching up. You modify your behavior with the people you meet by first looking at the shade of their flesh, and then you pretend you are unbiased towards anyone, as your twist and turn, trying to pretend you are all things to all people, as you denigrate them and condescend to everyone that doesn't look like you.

And when you get called out and have you own words used against you? You lie. You pretend the things you said were misunderstood. You suddenly forget what words common to the language mean. You cherry pick "facts" and take them out of context in order to pervert their meaning...THE MOST disengenuous, intellectually dishonest person floating around here. I have disagreements with many...but you are without a doubt the worst - arrogant pompous white male asshole who *thruly* thinks he is better than everyone else....you even described yourself one day without finding a single fault with yourself....it was hilarious.

Fuck off, thucy. Go gather around you your little PoC's and pet them on the head, tell them they are all OK because White Man has come to save them....

"You are a fucking **retard** thucy. It's seriously like talking to a 5 year old."

This is what I'm talking about when I say you have decency or respect.

I never said I don't believe in politics - just that I find the two main American political parties rather tired, and totally inadequate - a bit like the atheist/theist debate.

You are a walking embodiment of the Just World Fallacy - you think everyone should be treated equally because you think there is nothing to redress in our society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

You are wrong. The world is not just - despite the fact that there is no inherent difference between the humanity or abilities of any of the socially invented races, huge gaps remain between the races, gaps which, unsurprisingly for anyone except possibly yourself, mirror these groups' treatment in history.

And yet, supposedly, we are past this history. When in fact it manifests itself every day.

Pretending not to notice these identities is not to be unbiased or non-racist, it is to be willfully ignorant of the sad realities of this world.

Color-blindness is not only stupid, it's a lie.

Do you, for example, agree that there should be no special classification for a "hate crime"? If you were "color-blind", you would, but such a position is ludicrous.

"Color-blindness is not only stupid"

Thucy admits he thinks being color-blind (in a racial sense) is stupid! How much more racist can you get?!

It's funny but Friday, I parked next to a beautiful Mercedes CLS when I stopped to get my salad at the local grocer by work. I saw the owner of the car right next to me (he backed in or pulled through while I had just pulled in) so as I got out and noticed his window down, I started chatting with him about how gorgeous the CLS was and how I'd love to upgrade to one some day. He complimented me on my taste of the C class which has more back seat room for his kid and we joked about how we should trade. I spent half an hour of my lunch chatting with him, not once noticing he was black until he had to leave (his wife and young son came back out with some groceries). Guess what? He was black and I thought nothing of it and didn't even really think about it at all until after he had left and I was walking to the salad bar and checking this fucking forum.

So I guess I must be stupid because I was color-blind the whole time I was talking with that gentleman. To me, he was just a guy with a cool car who happened to have a darker complexion, but that didn't matter. It took reading this forum and Thucy's insistence that I have to treat that gentleman better than a white man (not equal, but better) to make me realize that, oh yeah, he was black <*gasp*>.

Another wonderful quote of a quote from Race Baiter Thucy!

""We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

-Texas Declaration of Secession, 1861 "

Race Baiter Thucy - WebDip's quote of the day thread, 2013.

If bringing up a racist document over 150 years old from a government that no longer exists isn't race baiting, I don't know what is.

Yeah, except that people in that same state fly the flag of that rebel government that no longer exists.

White privilege is invisible to those that have it, see this book:

http://books.google.sn/books/about/Colorblind_Racism.html?id=gbquQlq5D6QC&redir_esc=y

Just because you say that white is invisible to those that have it doesn't make it a fact. You seem to have a problem differentiating between objective facts and opinion.

Is claiming you are oppressed simply ans excuse for failure?

"Is claiming you are oppressed simply ans excuse for failure?"

Just World Fallacy

And vice versa.