Yes, you're right. No one needs the US as a world policeman any more, except for the BOD of Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed Martin.

"Heard of Vietnam- another war u guys lost- just get the fuck out of the region and control ur own people. "

Yeah, Aussies fought in that one too (so if we lost, so did you, since you guys didn't exactly fought for Vietnamese). And Korea. Funny that despite you being so anti-wars that have nothing to do with you, you guys sure are involved in a lot of them.

ah- we withdrew because people knew it was wrong. And the reason we fought for you was to repay a debt- same as we did with Britain. That no longer applies, and it's dawning on people here. no need for conflict- especially since most of the recent ones have been dominated/started by the good old USA.
The world sees the US as a troublemaker these days- well done France and Germany- 2 countries i applaud... wasn't it France who said there were NEVER any WMD's? and where are/were they??? no where to be seen

The US used to be our major trading partner- one reason we sided with them- USA is now defunct in that department, so China is the replacement. Like one relationship to the next:)

"The world sees the US as a troublemaker these days- well done France and Germany- 2 countries i applaud."

Countries you applaud? Really? France - the same country that led the intervention in Libya, and the overthrow of Aristide in Haiti & Gbagbo in Cote D'ivoire. Germany, the same country that led the fiasco in Bosnia and violated its own constitution with its active military participation in NATO's destruction of Yugoslavia?

Great role models, those.

I love how you Aussies act as if you'd be morally superior, when you're just as brutal. The problem is capitalism. Your chauvinism is not only embarrassing, it misses the point.

Australia is not a puppet of the US, it just hangs on because we can't afford to go on such large adventures ourselves. Look at the Australian meddling in Indonesia, PNG, Nauru, the Solomon Islands and Fiji, where Australia can throw its weight around by itself, it will.

Oh please, Putin. Gbagbo had to go. He lost the election. And you believe the entire Arab Spring was a CIA scheme? You think too highly of our abilities clearly. You can't fake what happened in Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria, Tunis, Libya, Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and Oman.

And yes Bob, that's all my restrictions.

Have Aussies been involved in atrocities? Abu Grav(spelling?) like Americans?
FUCK NO. Least we have a sense of humanity when it comes to war and intervention- we don't shoot unarmed civilians for sport or cos we have messed up fuckheads in our armies- don't u guys screen ur military for mental illness?

On topic: there are few losses of life in history, comparable in scale, as stupid and wasteful as WW1 was. Includes Gallipolli. Draw your own parallels.

Congo, Kenya, Pakistan...

"Oh please, Putin. Gbagbo had to go. He lost the election."

No he didn't. The electoral commission announced the 'results' in favor Ouattara under armed guard in Ouattara's HQ under the supervision of foreign envoys. Swaths of the country who were pro-Gbagbo were under the control of militias that supported his French backed opponent, Outtara. In fact even US government officials said that in the north there many irregularities. Large numbers of refugees fled to Guinea from those areas due to intimidation and harassment. Far less happened in Iran and we called that election rigged. The Ivorian Supreme Court nullified the results due to irregularities, and for that Gbagbo is arrested and sent to the Hague?

I guess that's what supporters of American foreign policy want to happen to everyone involved in a disputed election. Send them to the Hague.

If that standard send Bush Jr to the Hague then I say let it rip

" Least we have a sense of humanity when it comes to war and intervention"

Right, here's your "humanity" right here, Prime Minister Harold Holt after his pal Suharto came in and slaughtered a million Communists within a year:

'With 500,000 to 1 million Communist sympathisers knocked off, I think it is safe to assume a reorientation has taken place.'

And what of their 'humanity' in enabling the same wretched regime to wage genocide against the Timorese? Yeah man, you're a bunch of angels.

Sydney - he's right. The Australian defence establishment are not particularly more or less worthy of criticism than American ones. We have a share in most of their atrocities, as well as a swag of our own. That being said, it shouldn't be assumed that foreign policy reflects popular attitudes in Australia or anywhere else. You only own it if you vote for it, or otherwise enable it.

I can honestly say I never voted for Harold Holt...

who did- he was abucted lol...
and bush jr/sr- talk about a monarchy in a supposed republic- keep it in the family yea?

That awkward moment when Kim Beazley Junior almost became PM...

Could have voted against Holt in 1966, if not for the fact that I wasn't born yet.

Putin, Gbagbo was only allowed ten years as president. He should never have even been allowed to run by that point. It's bad enough he delayed elections as long as he did.

What is the matter with you? You say so many true and poignant things, especially when criticizing, but then the shit you support sometimes... it boggles the mind. Let's all of us not forget that North Korea has a friend in Putin33.

Normally I would say "enough said" but the annoying thing about Putin is that you can't just mute him because sometimes he has good points.

I think I may have asked you this before Putin but if you don't mind I'll do so again:

Can you name one foreign policy issue on which you side with the United States? Thanks.

The simple fact is that the scourge of war that has ravaged our planet would not be possible without the willing and often eager participation of the common soldier. So why do common people submit to this horror? Imbecilic quests for glory, money, patriotic brainwashing and an evolutionary tendency to violence. Soldiers are at best victims, not heroes.

You know, just with foreign policy, I think Putin doesn't really support a lot of the things he's saying, he just does it to make us think about why we are in favor of one nation or another and question ourselves to look at things objectively. I mean, clearly here my thoughts and mind were challenged (though I can't remember the Kenya example you came up with, Bob. I'll concede to you on Congo and Pakistan). So I don't mind at all that he "supports" North Korea.

"They were among hundreds of people who were illegally detained and tortured during the government of President Daniel Arap Moi, who retired in 2002. Their lawyers, who first brought the case in 1988, said the constitutional court had made a landmark ruling.The victims had described spending days in waterlogged torture chambers. For almost as long as Mr Moi ruled Kenya, Nyayo House in Nairobi became an unutterable synonym for torture, terror and detention."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-10721384

"Looking at the political situation in Kenya, Carson called Kenya the “strongest partner” of the United States in the Horn of Africa. “We have our greatest economic ties there. We have our strongest military ties there as well, and it has been an important partner with the United States.” Carson added that the United States is “deeply concerned” over the stalemated political situation there and pledged that, if confirmed, he would do everything he could to help address the political impasse."

http://www.ethiopianreview.com/articles/3493

Isolationism is looking better and better. We can save some money and let the rest of the world go to pot. Since the rest of the world is obviously not grateful for Pax Americana

Yep, Pax Americana has been really good for everyone.

is... is that..... SARCASM??!!

I believe this is a first for webdip.

I believe it's hard to quantify and thus evaluate the benefits and drawbacks of the American presence around the world. Those on the pro side say that the presence of such a force deters rogue actions of nations or other groups and defends sea trade routes, thus contributing to the prosperity of the world. Those who disagree with American dominance say that America is using its superior forces to further its own interests to the expense of others. There is an element of truth to both sides, but it is hard to say which effect is more prominent. I reserve judgement on this issue.

And those who said "we don't need the US as the world police, we have the UN." Who do you think the primary military the UN calls on is? China? they have their own interests and would as soon tell the UN to go get bent. Russia? Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia doesn't exactly have the capable military machine needed for the job. Seriously, name a nation with the military might and the ability to go in and enforce UN decisions (the UN doesn't have a standing army after all) and *be* the teeth that the UN doesn't have. There isn't one. It's the burden the US has chosen to take on, be the main teeth the UN needs to enforce its orders.

Hey, remember when Australia left the UN because they refused to stop infringing on newly formed Timor Leste's territory? Good times, good times.

Essentially, they signed an agreement with Indonesia to have an oil drilling platform in Indonesia's territory, who was occupying Timor Leste at the time. When Timor Leste was acknowledged as an independent nation by the UN, this platform was in their territory. They wanted to work out a deal with Australia, who insisted the only way they wanted to go about it was to keep up the contract with Indonesia. The UN resolved in favor of Timor Leste, so Australia simply left the UN in order to not be held by that resolution.

Eventually it got worked out and Australia rejoined, but the whole situation, to me, highlights how useless the UN can be if you can just leave in order to ignore their resolutions. And it shows Australia being dickish in foreign policy.

But nonetheless, happy ANZAC day (belated).

I agree that the UN is completely freaking worthless when it comes to backing up resolutions.

You have to admit that Pax Americana is one of the better "Pax" periods in history. It is relatively benevolent, and we deserve to have our own interests advanced as compensation for keeping the world safe.

That's the thing, gunfighter. We don't keep the world safe. We keep dictators who are willing to allow us to plunder their countries safe. Essentially, you're offering the same rationale for preference as any organized crime boss.