I say what a beautiful thread. The so-called progressives expose themselves for what they clearly are, a bunch of slimy crooks desperate for self-appointed moral superiorIty. Most egregious!

Kreller if there's anything left of you after our upcoming game, I'll buy you a beer.
(If you're ever in NZ)

Oh and cheers to you as well semck

Why do Libtards always demand that the "rich" give freely of their wealth (which is a result of their labor) but the same Libtards never demand that those recieving said wealth are not required to give freely of their labor in order to receive their handout?

Lots of trash in the cities to pick up,charities that need volunteers, pot holes to be filled in roads, etc etc etc.

And thus he complete dishonesty of liberals is exposed.

^ Wow, I'm sold.

What about wealth that is not the result of labour?

Libtard sounds like something a little kid calls another once theyve realized their brain is less evolved.

You're right. The poor don't work at all. Only the rich ever do anything. Poor people just sit on their asses at home while the working rich wait on their every need. It's disgusting, really, the way our society works that way. Pity the hard working rich people who, all day, every day, are forced to cater to the whims of the poor.

Yes Thucy, when you're arguments fail just resort to pathetic sentiment, then your opponents look like meanies. Works every time right?

Hmmmm, so, is that not whar Krellin is basically saying then?

He is incensed that people are called to give freely of their wealth and the fruits of their labor. Yet of course we are. No one is an island entire to itself. Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow.

Thucy, you douchebag - I never said poor people don't work at all. But there are a *GREAT NUMBER* of people in this country recieving money for doing nothing.

You, again, will of course deny this reality, because it conflicts with your mythology.

Funny thing is, you seem to have this nasty tendency to throw out biblical concept when you think it suits you. The Bible in no way supports freeloaders.

As for your childish Libtard sentiment that "you dind't build that business" bullcrap that you adopted from your Democrat talking points....sorry, assclown...just because I use a public road -- which I PAY TAXES TO HAVE BUILT -- when I put MY OWN MONEY on the table, when I work 80 hours a week to build a business, and eventually employ people, etc etc etc...that is MY fucking work, not your, not "societies" fucking work. And when a business fails...and I have had a couple of business fail, or at least fail to thrive such that I abandoned them - there is no good libtard waiting on my front doorstep to help pay the bills that I accrued while trying to start my business.

Once, Thucy, your willfully ignorant social THIEF, you are either truly stupider than I ever imagined....or you simply live in a state of constant denial, because, again, reality doesn't live up to your perverse authoritarian utopia.

I *CHALLENGE* you, Thucy, to geta real fucking life...instead of picking oranges and pretending you are doing good for society, get off your fucking ass and start a company...take your brilliance and DO something....make something GREA of yourself so that instead of espousing your libtard nonsense, you can stroll up to the table and cut a fucking check like you expect the rest of us to do while you live the life of fucking sally.

As ever, you are the worst kind of hypocrite, Thucy.

As ever Krellin, you return to form and contribute greatly to discussion.

No wait, you troll hard, get congratulations from those who already agree with you, and come off as an ass to everyone who doesn't see things precisely your way.

I guess you win, if that' s what you call winning...

I believe in the Proverb: "Better to live humbly with the poor than to share plunder with the proud."

As such I don't expect to be cutting any checks anytime soon. But the labor of my hands I have given freely, and will continue to do so.

Even freeloaders are our brothers and sisters and they do not deserve to starve to death. That's what I believe. Disagree if you want, but as long as you are cutting checks, I challenge you to ask yourself who is cashing them.

Can you connect the dots for me on how the existence of even one freeloader means we should never help the needy? I don't get it. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt - how is it moral to let people starve just because some people wouldn't really have starved if you hadn't helped? Would you rather err on the side of helping too much than helping too little? What is the point of life except to help others? What is the point of having so much if the only function of holding it is to keep it from others, others who need it even? I don't care how rich you are or how many businesses you have started or how hard you work - how is this not true for all people? The widow can give her two pennies, why can't you?

Helping the needy, and letting the people take for the sake of taking is NOt one and the same. There are many, who prefer to take from the government because they let them, than going and finding a job. Freeloaders are a detriment to society, and our national debt.

@Thucy - I believe in helping people voluntarily. If Paul is poor, yes, he needs help, but does that warrant the government robbing from Peter to help him?

The real questions are these: 1) on what degree should the government help people, and thus how bad is it if they don't help them? and 2) is it a greater evil to not help these people, or to coerce money from others?

Of course this is a tricky question, and one's answer depends very much on their philosophy of government's job. On whether they think they have the responsibility to help others, and whether they have the right to levy taxes to do so. These are nuanced questions, and the variety of answers is why there is a variety of economic philosophies, from communism, to socialism, to social democracy, to capitalism, to a full-on laissez-faire system.

Other issues, to me, are much more black-and-white. Legalize victimless crimes, abolish the death penalty, don't spy on people. It's based on one question, regarding the role of government, not two.

I always try to respect people who disagree with me politically, and that doesn't take any effort with those on the left economically, because I know that they think that way because they care about people.

"but does that warrant the government robbing from Peter to help him"

Strategic word choice in a nutshell, folks.

"is it a greater evil to not help these people, or to coerce money from others?"

Is that really such a tricky question? It seems trivially easy. A few extra thousand or millions in someone's bank account, versus less people dying of preventable causes.....

And all the while, Thucy, college educated lazy piece of shit....is picking fucking oranges, instead of living up to his actual potential.

Instead of actually becoming a successful individual that might actually be able to really help people....his is playing Libtard feel-good bullshit party life, smoking dope and living off Daddy's monthly supplemental paycheck so his little boy doesn't starve...

Loser fucking piece of shit....

If everyone had their basic needs covered, there could be genuine points to argue about the ethics of taxation. But as it stands, relying on voluntary charity is resulting in needless suffering and death and the abrogation of basic human rights like food, water, and education. Apparently all these rich people are not heeding Jesus' advice to "go, sell that thou hast, and give to the poor." It isn't particulaly surprising though. The guy in that story didn't even do it when Jesus told him to in person.

"And all the while, Thucy, college educated lazy piece of shit....is picking fucking oranges, instead of living up to his actual potential.

Instead of actually becoming a successful individual that might actually be able to really help people....his is playing Libtard feel-good bullshit party life, smoking dope and living off Daddy's monthly supplemental paycheck so his little boy doesn't starve...

Loser fucking piece of shit...."

The above is presented without comment.

Take it easy Thucydides. We understand you have the schizophrenia. Have a cup of tea and please don't be insistent that the world must match what is in your head.

^also presented without comment

Thank you for 'presenting' that. No I'm actually serious. You have schizophrenia - have you not been diagnosed yet?

I'm mentally healthy, but thanks for your concern, assuming it's genuine

Reeallllyyyy? Well good, that's a relief. So your just plain wrong then.

I am in favor of allocating resources in such a way that everyone having enough food to eat is the top priority. You can judge whether that makes me just plain wrong or not.

Well you certainly have simplified your argument since the lofty heights of 'ableist' doctrine.

Let me argue using your style" I am for good and against evil. You can judge whether that makes me just plain wrong or not.


A truly fuicking sorry display Thucydides.

So you agree then that feeding everyone should be our top economic priority? Because it seemed like it wasn't.