@F4 - Subs have few windows but they all have doors. But either way it was a leaky comparison. :-) My main point was it isn't just Hollywood. Look to 007 and Doctor Who jist to name two. As far as TV goes, there are far more sitcomes and reality shows than action shows and many of the dramas nowadays even steer away from on screen violence (the new Elementary is a good example).

for Nigee and ghug, they obviously dont live in the same place I live, because if they did, they would have a 100% different outlook on Guns.

Nigee, My 6 year old son shoots,. I have a 22 he shoots with me, and we target practice a lot, he has hunted. Before he actually started shooting, he woudl come with me, tracking, paying attention to things I would point out, etc.

There is no hard age for a child to start shooting, they simply are ready or they are not,.

I ahve 2 daughters, 17 and 14. Both shoot, and shoot well. They asked me around the age of 8 or 9 I guess if I would teach them. I never asked them once, they asked me.

Gun safety is 100% a requirement, and all gusn are locked away, and I have the key, as do my 2 daughters, as they have handled guns for a long time now. My son is monitored 100% of the time though, he is simply too young to be alone with a gun, other than plucking rabbits in the garden off the front porch, and even then, someone is on the porch with him.

"for Nigee and ghug, they obviously dont live in the same place I live, because if they did, they would have a 100% different outlook on Guns."
There are shootings near where I live all of the time, that's part of the reasons I'm so vehemently against guns.

I find it slightly disturbing that you let your six year old son kill helpless animals for entertainment. Is that really a good idea?

ENTERTAINMENT? they are in the garden, you knwo that place where we have vegetables for our table? And those rabbits also get put to the table, so save your 'entertainment' rubbish, because if he was not doing it, I would be. The animals are left there to rot, but the garden is our garden, with our vegs for the year.

Entertainment indeed. Again, showing ignorance and even a slight touch of bigotry there.

Sounds like it entertains him. I just think it's wrong to teach a six year old child to kill things. If that makes me a bigot, I guess I'm a bigot.

SD is getting serious… he's hunting wabbits.

You are a bigot, because you dont understand the culture, and complete poverty of appalachia. If you did, you would not be saying such things.

We have learned the hard lessons of the past. We depend on nobody, if we can help it, but our own small community and family (and sometimes not even them) The government can easily take away that which they give,

Nobody helps protect our livestock, our children, or our gardens from animals. We do it ourselves.

He may enjoy it, because he is accomplishing a task that his father would normally be doing, but as all new chores lose their appeal (like cutting the grass the first few times is cool, then it is a job) this also loses its appeal. Trust me, he is doing a chore.

He has seen me slaughter lambs, he dont think that is fun, I can be sure of that. He hates doing it because he says "this takes too long daddy"

and bo sox, who has already shown his bigot self in the past by accusing peopel where I am from "more than likely to shoot you if you ask them for directions" really gets no say in this until he apologizes for that hateful lie he spouted about a month back.

SD, I'm from here too. Don't worry, we're going to go on this journey toward not blowing people's heads off together, buddy.

Who is this SD? Do you mean Stressedlines which would better be abbreviated SL?

Woops. Yep. I can't think when I'm happy.

And I just opened myself up to every insult in the book. See, point proven.

Drau, I asked that before also, butnobody answered, but BoSox is one of the biggest bigots on the board, and I dont really care what he has to say.

I will never forget what he said that day.

Maybe I'm the only one that finds the irony in being criticized for discussing the fact that I said you shoot a gun at random when you just admitted you shoot at rabbits from your porch with your six year old who could easily shoot your balls off if he felt like it.

I remember that day and thread well, Stressed and I remember making a point tobstand up for rural folks having been raised in farm country where everyone had shotguns and rifles to keep away the coyotes. I also remember him saying city folk were all nice and friemdly and I challenged him to drive through parts of Cincinnati where driving while white in those neighborhoods gets you carjacked, mugged and, if your lucky, *just* hospitalized.

Assault rifles to drive away the coyotes...

Stressedlines is such suburban trash

bo_sox
I didn't say you were pro-gun, I was asking you whether you would be encouraging young people in your care or indeed your own children to own guns. The point being that if en masse the US public, regardless of legislation, decided to give up on guns and stop buying them in time the threat would diminish because there would not be all these guns available. I know this cultural change could take years but I think there are loads of examples around the world of normal citizens e.g. like teachers, etc that do not buy guns as self-defence. The reason I am asking you is because you are still young enough to be open-minded about the issue. There are other people on here that will never give up their guns, they love them. I guess at 17 you are not yet old enough to own a gun and therefore still have a choice of whether to buy or not to buy.
What percentage of your friends all want to buy guns? Positive action against gun crime can simply be not to buy one. Could you imagine killing someone with a gun because they broke into your house to steal money, would that be a justifiable homicide, shooting a burglar? Are there any other times when you think you would take out that gun and shoot someone? If you can never envisage using it would you ever need to own it?
It sounds like everyone is living in fear of crime or being attacked in their homes.....

I live in the UK and we have something called an air rifle and I've been shot by one of them, it stings bad and leaves a mark. We have an issue sometimes where teenage kids get hold of these and go around shooting swans or cats or other kids.
If you needed a gun at home for self defence I'm sure an air pistol/rifle would suffice.
If we had guns on open sale in the UK there are plenty of irresponsible people that would love to get their hands on one, not for pest control but for status.
Also a lot of our farmers own shot guns and we have recreational shoots.
Most of the other gun owners are people who use them for criminal purposes.
If we had more guns there would be more shootings and more deaths, if there were less guns there would be less shootings and less deaths, this is simple stuff.
Someone being interviewed on the TV in the US has just said that it is harder to adopt a pet than to buy a gun, when you live in a society like that something is wrong

Rifles and shotguns are important for hunting and protection in rural areas. They are also hard to conceal (more so than a handgun, anyway) and have limited ability to cause major damage (single action rifles/double barreled shotguns).

The constitution is not going to be changed and neither is it's interpretation. However, why aren't people limited to similar guns that were available at the time of the constitution? Did Jefferson really intend for every citizen to have access to M16s? I doubt it. Revolvers (smaller capacity/harder to reload) should be allowed for personal defense and target practice. But what need does an average citizen have for anything more powerful than that?

@ Nigee

In what world does shooting a drugged up burglar with an air pistol help the situation? The burglar is still in your home, still desperate, and now he's bloody annoyed with a personal grudge against you. Yes, shooting a Nigee with one would be a great laugh, but shooting a burglar will either make him leave slightly earlier or get you killed.

Quick US question. With small guns readily available, did the concept of sawn off shot guns ever happen over there?

Santa Iwas referring to the people from europe that want to grab all the guns just so you know. And for the record Iuse an SKS usually, scoped on single shot for most of my hunting. Nobody hunts with an ar on auto. Sks accuracy is highly questionable outside.150 regardless if Ididnt scope it and a few other mods on it

I can't remember the last time Iburned thru a 30 round clip on that weapon but on a pack or 10 coyotes , yes, Ilike that more rapid fire option

Unlike western coyotes these are much bigger averaging well over 50 pounds now and pack together

They are smart also. During deer season they run towards gunshots. They have learned hunters field dress often and run as packs towards the shots.

I was iin a deer stand once watched 22 run below my deer stand. I was actually a bit 'shaken' by it. I was using a bolt action that day and had 7 rounds with me. Lol. About 15 less than Ineeded

Also our coyotes are so bad now they will go for full sized cows giving birth. They have become a big problem. We have bounties on em and it isn't denting them

Oct. We have barrel length laws here usually but nobody who has one advertises it and use them for self defense or possum killing if they are in the hen house

Santa. Haha.at your suburban trash. Come on out to 'the burbs' you will love it.

@ghug,

"No, they kill when they are used properly. They were created as war machines and are sometimes used now in nonviolent circumstances when naturally violent people need an analog for war. "

It always amuses me to see liberals like you, who howl like a banshee when somebody conservative is (even apparently) insensitive to the cultural norms of a group outside their own, then turn themselves and do exactly the same thing to conservative-leaning cultures.

People who shoot guns for fun are "naturally violent"? Unbelievable. Unbelievable for the arrogance and for the complete lack of interest in considering another cultural perspective.

I do not own a gun, and I have never handled one, much less shot one. Nonetheless, I know many people who do shoot them for fun. Included among them are the gentlest and mildest people I know -- people in some cases who don't themselves own guns even for self defense and who would not do so because there is no circumstance under which they would want to hurt another person; but who will still, given the opportunity, enjoy shooting at targets for fun.

So please desist from insulting people about whom you obviously know nothing. Thank you.

One thing I never get in this discussion is that Gun Control is equated with Gun Prohibition. That is not necessarily the case. In the Netherlands for example, small arms are in fact legal, but they are so rare that many people *think* they are not. Rifles and such, the same (though assault weapons aren't).

I'm not sure if guns should be outlawed in the US, I can certainly see the coyote issue. But I am quite sure that you shouldnt put guns in a supermarket with little or no background checks necessary. Bearing arms, sure, but guns should not be on par with cucumbers.

@ Draug, thanks for the insight, there are a lot of programs on the telly and after all it is what a man chooses to watch. My program habits suck big time ;-)

Today in the newspaper there is an article on gun density in certain countries, with as you all guessed the highest in the US.

average gun possession per 100 citizens:

US 88,8
Jemen 54.8
Finland 45,3
Cyprus 36,4
Irak 34,4
Sweden 31,6

62% of the Americans have more than 1 firearm

You can not just ban the right to have fire arms but the American society may grow up and stop acting like a small child hammering on this right to have so called fire arms. Everywhere in the world people have grown up regarding fire arms, they are not needed anymore for various reasons, in the US the people are still having the mentality of settlers spirit. Yeah, in the 1800's you needed a gun. But now? the figures speak for themselves. Even in Irak there is a low gun to citizens ratio! A country plagued by terrorism and wars...

So this topic can be cluttered with discussions going on and on...but the real fact is that it has to be a mentality change in the whole world asking our selves do we need this stuff within city limits? Rural areas is a whole other topic..

I want to explore a possible solution; This idea is a work in progress so please expect it to have limitations.

Every gun should be insured in the same way that cars are insured.

People can still exercise their constitutional right to bear arms and if those guns are ever used to kill innocents (as opposed to buglars etc) then the insurance company pays out.

Premiums will include an addition to cover guns that are used by un-insured owners so that all victims are paidout equally.

The insurance companies will be able to allow the market to determine rates.

The people who are currently excluded from owning weapons will continue to be excluded.

Maniac, that isnt a terrible idea, however, I think we have more unregistered guns than registered in America, guns that were handed down thru the generations. Guns reported stolen, and then passed thru the system, etc..

F4, again, gun ownership does not equal violence. I think in my county, there is over 5 guns per HOUSE on average, but we have no violent crime (murders, rape, etc) that I can think of. I looked, we had 1 rape in the past 20 years in our county. People leave their doors unlocked almost always.

So, again, the guns do not make people violent, if that was the case, I would live in a damn war zone.