.......And 2WL disappears. Another Hit-and-Run

An argument can be made that fascism has certain left-wing aspects, especially on economic issues, but it falls under so sensible definition of liberal. And I like Jonah Goldberg. Even awkwardly creeped on him while he was telling a story at a party once.


But why even talk to a person like Sbyvl36 who thinks socialists are free traders?

Fascism is full-blown leftism. Not "certain left-wing aspects". Read your history.

Its not worth it. Just like Sbyvl equates "disappearance" with "didn't post for five minutes," his political spectrum is "Sbyvl >= everyone else who isn't Sbyvl", even if it makes no sense whatsoever.

And since you say that you like Jonah Goldberg, read what he has to say:

"Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term “National socialism”). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities—where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist."

OK, so they were socialists, in a sense. That's not really controversial since it's a pretty general term. No one ever said the Nazis were free marketeers who respected individual rights.

Why does that make fascism liberal?

Invictus just refuses to admit the truth, much like other leftists.

Their entire philosophy was one of leftism. Socialism is Liberal. Universal Healthcare is Liberal, etc etc

This may be the first time I've been called a leftist in my life. Nothing really could be further from the truth.

So liberal is just a synonym for political positions you disagree with? Gotcha.

I'm sure you are aware of the definition of Liberalism. Suddenly you look a lot stupider.

Invictus is officially a Nitwit.

So a guess Franco was a liberal? Funny how you can be hated by self-described liberals and loved by the Catholic Church and still be an evil libruhl. And so were Dolfuss and Tiso and Salazar? I suppose Imperial Japan was liberal as well, as were Atilla the Hun and Cain?

Well, as I expected, you dodged the truth. Franco was not Fascist, but Felangist. They were Authoritarian-Conservative in nature. Dolfuss also fit this ideology, as he banned the Austrian Nazis from his country. Tiso was a heretic, yet Salazar was a great man. Imperial Japan, Atilla, and Cain used completely different political systems. As they were not 'Europeanized', they cannot be portrayed on the same spectrum.

So much black and white...overload...overload...

Bye Bye Invictus.

Special plead much?

I especially like how you didn't pick up that my inclusion of Cain was a joke.

Could you give a definition of what you consider "liberal", Sbyvl?

This is a very, very simple question:

Liberals have wine racks, Conservatives have gun racks.

(Well, yes, a simplistic answer, but then I tailor my answers to the audience, and given the most of the audience's dialogue here so far...)

whose sybvl is she knew

Doesn't work, obi. I am the opposite, and i know too many conservatives who have both

@President Eden: *He. And no, I am not new. You just haven't been reading the forum lately.

Invictus is a perfect example of how liberals challenge the truth, but when you show that they are wrong they just ignore you.

Sbyvl, out of interest and to give context to your posts, are you in HS?

Nope.

"Liberals have wine racks, Conservatives have gun racks."

Actually, studies show that on average, Republicans buy more wine, brie cheese, and lattes per capita than Democrats.

Are you?

Conflating fascism with either liberalism of conservatism is not a useful exercise. It's true that both communism and fascism were considered leftist, but fascism exists in the application of militant dictatorship to absolute statism, just as theocracy exists in the application of militant dictatorship to absolute religious conservatism, or plutocracy from the application of militant dictatorship to absolute laissez-faire capitalism. What leads to totalitarianism is the application of absolutism and militarization to any system of beliefs.

That's why as a Liberal, I am somewhat worried by some of what I've seen from the Obama administration. Since 2001, under both George W. Bush AND Obama, we've seen an increasing expectation for police forces to play an increased anti-terrorism role, accompanied by increased militarization of local police forces. We've seen the expectation of a permanent state of war. We've also seen an increase in domestic intelligence activity. (Hello, NSA guys who just read that.) No matter which party is in power or what ideologies are popular, the increasing militarization in the US is not good for the democratic republic in the US.

Amen