"My ten cents"

Has anyone else noticed the disturbing inflation in the price of ideas these days?

Is that your 2 dollars worth, Oct? :-)

Thucy - "How do you know if someone's an engineer?

Don't worry, they'll tell you."

As a software engineer, I resent that joke.

You resent it or you resemble it?

@Aldy - The rest of the world is just jealous of engineers. Doctors may heal people but engineers design the devices the doctors use and scientists may make discoveries, but engineers apply those discoveries into something practical that improves the world.

Just think, without electrical and computer engineers, there would be no computer to post on the internet with and without software engineers there would be no internet to post on.

To the male engineers and such here: This letter was written to a Human Resources of the Female persuasion who comes from a non-technical, liberal arts background (thank you Linked In). It is *intended* to play on touchy-feely female emotions and make the person say, "Oh, maybe this isn't the same old business pitch..." that she normally gets from overly aggressive male sales people...

It is a specifically targeted and calculated ploy.

If I were sending an email to a male engineer, it would have bullet points, facts and figures that I would be find interesting myself.

krellin - You still have a few grammar errors and I still think that removign anything that indicates any of the blame was on their side should be struck. Also, "manning up" (company wise) and saying the situation has been corrected and will not happen again (not "let's just forget and try again" but "we have corrected the situation and hope to be forgiven so we can move forward") will still be an improvement without taking away from the emotional appeal. Also, despite the person being both female and nto from a technical background, avoiding any technical talk may be interpretted as talkign down, especially if she knows you (or your company) has a technical background.

Lol I love how you're being casually sexist with the person you're trying to butter up.

Glad to know you can at least filter it out if you need to though.

For the record I was trying to be funny.

Yup it was a good joke to Alderian, I'm seriously considering +1-ing it! ;-)

(munching on it)

Thucy --- "casually sexist"? No...it's called reality, my friend. Despite the liberal insistence to the contrary, men and women are different and respond to different input.

No, krellin, it's called "sexist."

Is it not worthwhile to separate the sort of negative sexism, that prevents people from one sex enjoying the freedoms enjoyed by the other, with positive sexism which attempts to treat people the way they'd prefer to be treated?

Interesting. So the reason my boss frowns when I bring in the latest market share analysis isn't because of our plummeting shares, but because she can't comprehend the numbers. I should probably substitute them with smiley faces and frowny faces to get the message across, then. And insert as many baby gifs as possible, she'll love that since she's currently pregnant herself. A perfect plan.

@ ulytau

She frowns because you don't bring them with a cupcake.

I could also print the smileys on a pink paper gently sprayed with a perfume. Or perhaps turn it into a movie with Hugh Grant. And make the cupcake a chocolate one. And give her the recipe.

You all are overlooking the fact that krellin did state this person didn't have a technical background. There is playing to the person's gender (which I think Krellin is overdoing with this, but his call) and there is talking down to a person because of their gender which he isn't doing here. He is talkign down to them, but it isn't gender related, it is perceived technical ability and knowledge related due to the person's background. Still won't get him the business as no one likes to be talked down to. But again, his call.

Does anyone, man or woman, actually like perfume? I always assumed it was something that was forced upon you when you reached a certain age... Like pink wafer biscuits, piles, and an interest in antiques?

How did that letter talk down to anyone? Please enlighten me?

and..bo_sox, ulytau, etc...I pity your girlfriends/wives if you believe men and women like to be treated exactly the same. Proof, once again, that I am dealing with a collection of mostly brainwashed politically correct robots on this site...Not to mention a great number of young people with no real experience with the oppostie sex.

The fact is, I deal with male and female clients on a regular basis. When the conversation turns from business to casual conversation, do all you pc robots think the male and female clients, when given the opportuntity to bring up a topic of conversation, are teh same? Women, if they know I have kids, will drift towards those topics, family life, etc. Men, not so much. I suggest you all go pick up a psychology book, or even something as inane as "Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus" and get your heads out of your ass.

Suggesting that women have different emotional triggers to draw their attention IN NO WAY suggests that they can't comprehend number, you morons. That is YOUR sexism shining through, not mine.

But when you are sending somebody a MARKETING letter...you must FIRST attract their attention. Once you get their attention, you sell the business. This was a marketing letter.

For the record...I tried this in years past at a previous company with success. That I choose to ask opinions here was out of curiousity. I will let you know how it works. But I seriously pity you fools that think there are no differences between the sexes....and then recommend you flip on you TV, open a magazine, look at a billboard...and then tell me...after BILLIONS of dollars in research, why is it taht advertising agencies market to men and women DIFFERENTLY?

On rereading the letter (I do hope you corrected the grammar erros at least) it didn't so much talk down to her as avoid the technical issues altogether. It was more your follow up to us that reflected a disdain for her perceived lack of technical skills and not wanting to talk over her head. I still say to hit on some technical high points might be a good thing. You are assuming it would be over her head, but our own HR people come to us if something in a letter from a recruiter trying to get a candidate in the door is over their head (we are a software development house - we have more programmers than non-programmers) so technical is what we do. So don't be afraid to send technical knowledge even if you think she won't get it. She will see to it that it is understood by the important people if she is any good at her job.

Racism, sexism, ageism, etc. etc. Krellin knows them all.

I agree with everything Draug has said.

Even if she understood nothing technical, you should have talked to her as if you did because,
1) It would have made you look like you thought she was intelligent in that subject and
2) It would have made you look like *you* were intelligent in that subject

Maybe flowers and kittens will win her over, but if your company got the axe once, it was probably for technical incompetence, which you should have demonstrated was no longer a problem.

*as if she did

You are posting too frequently, please slow down.

Draug / Abge....there are no technical issues. I'm an Engineering Technical Recruiter...she is a general HR person who sources out positions to recrutiers...like my company...and then we bring in engineering candidates to interview with her technical managers. If she islike 95% of the HR people I deal with, she is technically illiterate, as that is not her job. Her job is to manage a personnel process, that is all.

I bring up the fact that I am an Engineer because if we are recruiting engineers, I know engineers and engineering, having been one. It is a *sales* point that any HR person would relate to.

Thus, I talked down to her in no way and did not avoid any technical issues.

Then what did your company fuck up?

I don't know....I wasn't here at the time and the guy that fucked up was fired before I came on board. All we know if he lost the account...probably just by sending bad candidates and not being attentive to the needs of the company...i.e. didn't do his job. THAT is why "I'm an engineer" is important, because if the guy we had sent them bad candidates, I can send better ones (because I know the field), and (more important) if they are getting bad candidates from other staffing agencies, I can do better (because I'm an engineer). And no...it's not arrogance, and it's not bragging. You don't ask a plumber to give you an estimate on your taxes. Likewise, it is better to ask a former engineer to screen engineers than a liberal arts major...so it's a significant selling point.

But I also do not *WANT* to rehash the specifics of the past grievance. I acknowledge them (we did something bad), say "He's been fired!" and say "I'm the new, better guy"...and the story says, "Let's make friends again...if my child can...can't we?"

Oh...and in a more general answer to "Why did my company fuck up?" Because it is comprised to human beings, and every company comprised of human beings fucks up on occassion. No human enterprise has ever gone fuck-up free. That's why the notion of "Er....get over it and let's make friends again" comes in to play.

The problem with my industry in particular is that there are probably 50 staffing agencies within a half hour drive, from major companies like Kelly Service to single-office operations...so any fuck-up can quickly get you brushed aside. This business is **very** much a relationship-building business. That's why this letter is a relationship-building letter. And...being the charming guy that I am, I'm quite good at the relationship building business. (Yes...yes....this is where yo all gufffawwww and mock me...as I have said before, my webdip life bears little resemblance to reality.)

""I'm an engineer" is important, because if the guy we had sent them bad candidates, I can send better ones (because I know the field), and (more important) if they are getting bad candidates from other staffing agencies, I can do better (because I'm an engineer). "


I agree. My entire point was you should have elaborated on this point. As your letter stands, you made no effort to actually relate to their company. You should have related your experience as an engineer to the products they make.

That's all I'm trying to say.