there is still no Eric Maria Remarque on that list. This is prima facia evidence that popular opinions are retarded and totally useless for judging the quality of a work.

@numberzero: I suppose you're opposed to lists of great films then as well? In any case you are welcome to your opinion of course, but I disagree. The purpose of this list is to help me choose which books to read, which if anything will increase my understanding of art. My posting it here was merely meant t stimulate discussion and debate about which books others believe to be good. I feel that part of the purpose of art is to stimulate debate and discussion

If we wanted to be accurate, the title should be "Some books that some people think are the best of all time, ranked based on popular opinion, but biased by general ignorance"

yes. but lists are counter productive to that. see above. Okay well wait i'll just quote myself.

"This flawed reasoning on you part is just stiring up disagreements. It would have been better to just have us reccomend books to you."

Oh, I see everything is game. OK, I'd like to change my list a lot:

In no particular order:

1) Dune
2) LoTR
3) The Godfather
4) The Road
5) The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
6) The Odyssey
7) Tuesdays with Morrie
8) War and Peace
9) The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
10) Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass

@Hirsute - yes that would be a more accurate topic. a better one would have been to scap your list and instead give us a list of books that you have already read ranked with astericks for ones you liked alot. Then ask us to reccomend you so books.

@numberzero

We are recommending books. He's just letting us know which books are usually recommended.

2001 and 2010 by Arthur C. Clarke were actually good books until the epic reveal. But for no reason should you read the others. Once the epic reveal occurs its all down hill.

The Unlikely Disciple is also a great book.

@numberzero "there is still no Eric Maria Remarque on that list. This is prima facia evidence that popular opinions are retarded and totally useless for judging the quality of a work."
This statement just proves that you think your personal opinion is superior to everyone else's. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that you don't seem to consider that other people's opinions may be valid too.

' "This flawed reasoning on you part is just stiring up disagreements. It would have been better to just have us reccomend books to you." '

"The problem with just asking individual people who book recommendations is that they are simply your opinions, which may not be the same as mine. With a list that combines the opinions of hundreds of people, there is a good chance that I will find some books that I will agree with. "

I'll just add this: people enjoy looking at and debating lists of this kind. If you don't like them, nobody is forcing you to read them.

So here is a list of books that i am reccomending to you in no particular order because you should read them and not because they are "good".

1. "2001" by Arthur C. Clarke
2. "2010" by Arthur C. Clarke
3. "All quiet on the Western Front" by Eric Maria Remarque
4. "Three Comrades" by Eric Maria Remarque
5. "The Cossacks" by Leo Tolstoy
6. "The Sun Also Rises" by Earnest Hemmingway

I'm done in this topic.

Thank you numberzero. Here's the problem with your reasoning (coincidentally it's also the reasoning behind the creation of this list). Let's say I ask everyone I know (or don't know in your case) for book recommendations. They each give me some in no particular order like you have just done. I end up with hundreds of such recommendations. Unfortunately, I can only read one book at a time, so where do I start?
Collecting a list like this gives me a place to start and doesn't place too much weight on any single opinion

The great Arthur Schopenhauer once wrote something like: "if you start a book and it does not impress you immediately, throw it as hard and far away from you as possible. Because if it starts badly, it'l only get worse and you will regret the time wasted reading it."

He also said: "To buy books would be a good thing if we also could buy the time to read them."

Franz Kafka said: "A good book should be the axe for the frozen sea inside one . . ."


The trouble with these all-time best lists is that these books WERE great in their day, but most don't stand up to modern standards. Most are a waste of time to read because you have probably already seen the plot done 50 times on various TV shows.

So, here is my contribution to save you some time...

1 - The Great Gatsby - skip it.
2 - To Kill a Mockingbird - good.
3 - 1984 - skip it, you won't learn anything new there.
4 - Lolita - watch porn instead.
5 - The Lord of the Rings - waste of time. watch movies if you must.
6 - War and Peace - waste of time.
7 - Middlemarch - waste of time.
8 - Adventures of Huckleberry Finn - good, but don't expect to learn anything.
9 - In Search of Lost Time - no.
10 - Pride and Prejudice - no.
11 - Madame Bovary - no.
12 - Don Quixote - no, impressive for it's time, but not worth it now.
13 - The Catcher in the Rye - no, extremely overrated.
14 - Anna Karenina - if you must.
15 - Moby-Dick - no.
16 - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - ok.
17 - Hamlet - YES! do read this.
18 - Crime and Punishment - YES! do read this.
19 - The Brothers Karamazov - if you must.
20 - One Hundred Years of Solitude - never heard of it.
21 - Animal Farm - waste of time.
22 - Fahrenheit 451 - waste of time.
23 - Catch-22 - waste of time.
24 - Jane Eyre - never read it, but will see the movie.
25 - The Sound and the Fury - waste of time.
26 - His Dark Materials - waste of time.
27 - Frankenstein - good stuff, vampires are so cool!
28 - Gulliver's Travels - waste of time.
28 - The Stories of Flannery O'Connor - waste of time.
30 - Heart of Darkness - jsut watch Apocalypse Now (directors cut).


Careful with Crime & Punishment, as RL Stevenson said: "Henry James could not finish it; it nearly finished me. It was like having an illness".

In Search of Lost Time - DONT read this, it's very longwinded navel-gazing by a gay boy in love with his mom, who has never worked a day in his life. (not that there's anything wrong with that) There is a cartoon book version which is actually quite good.

LOL James Joyce was a filthy, filthy little boy who will never go to heaven.

I have two recommendations:
* Kim - Rudyard Kipling.
* Voyage to the end of the night - Celine.

Thanks for the headsup on Great Gatsby. I was thinking about reading 'A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man' by Joyce - any thoughts?

That's quite an impressive list and I wish you well with it:

I have only two suggestions neither of which are books to add:

A) Some of your "books" are plays. Go see them rather than reading them, that's the form they were meant to be enjoyed in and it will save you time. I've always found it best to go with a group and make sure that you've got a good place to sit and discuss the play afterward.

B) Don't wait until 66th to read "The Count of Monte Cristo".

so... we can crimp the top 30 down to:

* Hamlet
* To Kill a Mockingbird
* Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
* The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
* Crime and Punishment
* Jane Eyre
* Frankenstein

and then start adding recommendations?

Thanks for the input fiedler, but I'm not about to cut the majority of my list based on one person's opinion. To illustrate, some of the books you suggested I skip are among my personal favourites.

@Crazy Anglican: I'd rather read plays AND go see them, since not all performances are as good as they should be, and I'd rather not judge a play harshly based on a poor performance.

@fiedler: sorry if that came across badly - I really do value the input, I'm just saying I would prefer multiple opinions rather than just one.

absolutely, I was just putting my view out there :)

The point I wanted to make, is that there is a LOT of redundancy amongst these books, and time is fleeting (it's astounding), so one must be realistic about how much one can read and to what benefit.

Also, the fact that the plot of a book has been copied in other media is not a good reason to not read the book. I would rather read the original work than someone's parody of it.

@fiedler

I think you got a bit slash happy with those books.

@Hirsute

Fair enough I suppose, it was just an effort to help you save time. The list you've got there most people don't read all of it whilst pursuing a Bachelor's in Literature. I didn't read "Tom Jones" until I was going back for my Master's. It's a good read, but nothing particularly earth shattering.

Just out of curiousity, Why the Illiad and not the Odyssey? Have you already read the Odyssey?

Well made point. I was hoping for more opinions like you gave on Proust and Crime & Punishment. Maybe others will agree with you, or maybe they will disagree. That's the best way to help me (and hopefully others) decide whether or not to read these books.

well ok, I'm not sure a homage is necessarily a 'parody'. By all means read the original IF you have time, young skywalker.

So which of these have you already read, and which ones are you tempted by?

oh, if you're uncle doesnt want you reading Joyce then better skip Celine as well :)

@Fiedler Portrait was hard getting into and the story isn't really that great itself, but the symbolism, writing style, and all of the language conventions are absolutely phenomenal. Writing would be an A+. Story would be a B.

And I respectfully disagree on your opinion of War and Peace

@abgemacht: what can I say, they fit the fireplace perfectly ;^) Which ones would you save an why?

@goldfinger: thanks, I will put it on MY list :) I heard Joseph Campbell recommend it once, thought if must be good stuff.

@Crazy Anglican: You seem to misunderstand. I didn't choose which books to put on the list, so asking me why one book is on instead of another is pointless.
Also, I have already read quite a few of the books on the list over the years. I included the ones I already read just to make the list more complete. Also, hearing someone's opinion on books I've already read helps me judge their opinion on other books.

@fiedler: