'least of these commandments' suggests there are many, and some small ones. This again supports my view.

@Dave: (another alternate argument [This is separate from my previous arguments, and is only backup if you prove those wrong]): Jesus was talking about this before he died and rose again. Once he died, we should place importance on faith in him, and not on the Law, as Paul says in Galatians.

@Dave: Here's verse 17: Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
How does that show what Law Jesus is referring to?

@Dave: "Least of these commandments" only shows that there are multiple commandments (could be 2, could be 10), and you have to obey even the smallest one.

@Dave: "I just don't buy you can ignore this passage." In what way am I ignoring that passage? I am merely suggesting an alternate interpretation that does not contradict another part of the Bible.

I have to go somewhere. I'll be back in about 45 minutes.

IIRC, the greek word for fulfill means "to complete *and* free from". I studied this some time back (years ago) but my recollection was that Christ fulfilled the prophecies (the Prophets as it were) and freed us from bondage to the Law. That is why we can enter heaven without obeying them, but will be thought least among those in heaven. And Christ's sacrifice was such that there will be no more hell come the judgment day and Satan, the Beast, and *The* Anti-Christ were cast into the lake of fire and bromstone.

*brimstone

Does anyone else feel that CM is the child of SSReichsFuhrer and Diplofool?

Conservative Man will be back shortly. He just had to quick strangle a homeless man to achieve an erection.

@CM- whenever Jesus refers to the Law in the Gospels he means the Old Testament Law. I did already say that. The fact he mentions 'prophets' right next to them confirms that as the prophets are also in the OT. Draugnar will agree with me there.


Your suggestion that that teaching is only relevant before Jesus died is both funny and worrying. Funny because by extension we could say all his teachings before his death are irrelevant, which is crazy!! Worrying because the passage clearly says "until heaven and earth disappear", and again you seem to be ignoring the passage and everything I've been saying. You're coming up with the craziest ideas and interpretations, to back up your pre-decided view.


@Draugnar. I find it funny your questioning the greek translation rather than your unfounded view the the OT is irrelevant.
However your interpretation could work, that all christians are simply the lowest level of heaven. However, i don't think a heaven with a pecking order and losers at the bottom of the pyramid sounds very nice and perfect to me!!

Even if you can get into heaven though, doesn't this passage make clear that Jesus wants us the obey the commands, and that it is very bad not to do so. Should you not therefore obey, as best you can, the OT?

@Dave: The commandments that Jesus listed in Mathew 19 are found in the OT (Except for two). That is the Law Jesus is referring two. The fact that he includes "or Prophets" doesn't confirm either of our views.

Also, @Dave: Why are you ignoring MY passage? Did you even read Mathew 19:16-30?

I'm ignoring your passage because I've already accepted contradiction.
Also saying that you should follow x commandments (the ones jesus lists), doesn't mean you shouldn't follow others as well.


So you honestly believe Jesus is referring to random parts of the law which he ltalks about in your passage when he says: "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law"
The 'Law' was, at the time, not open to interpretation- it meant the first 5 books of The Scriptures- the OT. Now it seems more vague, but ask any christian scholar and they'll tell you you can't pick and choose what "Law" means.

@Dave: First of all, Jesus said you would be perfect if you followed all the commands listed in Matthew 19. So any other laws would irrelevant.

And, "The Law" at that time was the first 5 of the OT, but that was for Israelites only.

OMG, fucking religion. What the fuck. Stop spamming the forum with this bullshit.

@Dunecat - Get over the hatred, pal. It's beneath you. You're a brilliant player.

The dykes, sodomites, pseudo-intellectuals (eg. high-schoolers pretending to have a grasp of logic) and politicos have ALL KINDS of threads to entertain you.

Bible study is here to stay.

You're too small fry to do anything about it.

So fuck off.

"Plus, he could give the money he got to the poor, which really would be putting God first."

Or he could just give his possessions to the poor, instead of liquidating them first.

"Please show me any part of that conversation that shows that my interpretation is false."

What, of course I can't do that, that's a ridiculous thing to ask of me. My point is that the majority of your argument is your very own interpretation. You've proven yourself quite capable of worming your way through the tiniest of loopholes in the Bible, I have no doubt in my mind that if you set yourself to the task, you could justify almost any semi-reasonable moral and/or political system with the Bible and even some lunacy.

The bible also says slavery is o.k. - just the kind of relevant booklet to answer today's problems, don't you think........??

@Dave - What can I say? I have certain doubts as to the veracity of what was relayed in the gospels considering parts of them were written half a lifetime after they occured and the earliest parts on Christ's birth were written by men who were just babies themselves at that time. My beliefs on the veracity of the OT are fairly widely held by others as well and contradictions in what Christ said are easily attributed to the writers of the Gospels being flawed men with flawed memories.

@Draugnar: "and contradictions in what Christ said are easily attributed to the writers of the Gospels being flawed men with flawed memories." There are no contradictions in what Christ said. The writers of the Gospels were under the influence of God when they wrote them. They knew what they were doing.

@Pantalone: That is part of the Old Testament Law. We do not have to follow that anymore except for the command Jesus lists in Matthew 19.

Bump. I feel like debating some more.

>So fuck off.
Keep wanking. Keep trying to justify religion at all in any context and telling yourselves it's intellectual. Just do it somewhere else and not on this webDiplomacy forum. It doesn't fucking belong here.

@Dunecat: You don't fucking belong on here. And please show me how religion is not intellectual.

Are you guys going to start Bible Trumps again? You know, someone quotes Fnargwaller 6:13 "my dick is bigger than your dick" and then another god-botherer comes up with "the size of the dick doesn't matter" from Supertramp 1:17. It is so funny watching you tie yourselves in knots.

@Diplomat: wtf?

Conservative Man, you have more forum posts than you have points. You're clearly not here for the game. Get the fuck out. Go back to Stormfront or SarahPalin.com or any number of sites geared toward your Christian bullshit. Don't pollute this BOARD GAME forum with your parasitic, meritless ideas about the origins of the world or the basis of morality.

@Dunecat: Why don't you get the fuck out and stop polluting this board with your hate speech and trolling.

WHOA NOW

The CHRISTIAN is trying to tell me about HATE SPEECH?

That's fucking rich. Lol, poor Christians. They're so oppressed! GOD FORBID they get criticized for being batshit-fucking-insane!