“You seem a decent fellow, I'd hate to kill you. You seem a decent fellow, I'd hate to die.”

Yes, it is aways time for a good PRINCESS BRIDE quote.

Here's another then
“You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never to get involved in a land war in Asia. And only slightly less well known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!”

See, my point proven.

Haha now don't you two seem to be quite good friends...

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."

It's a Wonderful Life and Die hard are my 2 favorite Christmas movies. Charlie Brown comes in 3rd.

Yippie Ki Yay motherf*cker.

problem solved, game drawn

Whoah, I'd have thought you guys would have gone for the 4 way. I knew who everyone was! Except I had The Czech as England and Gobba as Germany!

humm... Ireally think that this game had everything to continue.
Anyway, it was a good game to play.

Should we elaborate EOGS?

I'd really like to hear some EOGS and would try to write one myself.

There was a lot of play left in this game.

There was play left. I had no idea people would actually draw. I'll write my EOGS and post later tonight.

I myself am pleased as punch with the draw.

I might as well post first, being the first to have been eliminated.

EOGS from Austria -

Overall, I'd say I had an exciting but frustrating game. Allow me to elaborate.

Opening moves, S01: I opened regular hedgehog, which is diplomatically neutral in my opinion and prioritizes defense. Russia opens to UKR, letting me into GAL, and Turkey and Italy open neutrally as well. In the West, F/G appear to have some support diplomacy going on and England has opened North. At this point, I'm wondering why there are questions about my opening being anti-Italian. In a regular game, yes, it would have been anti-Italian. But in gunboat, you have no idea whether Italy will move to TYR or not. So I had to move in order to split the armies if this happened. Luckily, Italy supports me and so I return the support next turn.

A01: I make my first mistake here, thinking that zarat will move to cover himself in WAR. From my experience, most Russias in this position move back, but then this is zarat, not some noob in a live gunboat, so I guess this was my fist mistake - fancying my chances on RUM to be above par. Of course, this results in my letting jimgov into Greece, so it shoiuld actually count as two mistakes. Italy builds F NAP, but Turkey builds 2 fleets. It's starting to look like a long and weary battle ahead. Germany has entered BUR so I'm happy that France will be occupied and won't mess with Italy in the near future.

S02: Things get nasty, as I make my second mistake. I once again mistakenly put my money on Turkey trying to enter SER, so I support hold and use my GAL army on WAR. Neither Turkey or Russia make the moves that I expect, and furthermore I forgo the opportunity to bounce them out of RUM. Italy guesses AEG correctly and bounces Turkey there, but at this point it is only a delaying tactic and the damage has been done. We can only hope to hold back R/T, especially since Russia has gotten SWE. I move my fleet down, hoping to make some moves on Greece. But in all honestly, if Austria needs a chance in gunboat, it means taking the ballsy risk of opening to ALB and trusting Italy (I played a lot of Live Anon Gunboats during the School of Classy game and was assigned Austria in many because the system does this weird thing where it keeps giving you a country until you finish playing it, so I was able to experiment more with openings).

A02: Russia is now even putting pressure on Germany in Denmark (Germany, why the weird move to BAL, exposing Denmark? Was it in anticipation of a bounce?) And he builds A WAR which makes us screwed. I'm able to stop Turkey's attack on SER but I completely fail to notice the tactical advantage in supporting Italy into GRE and so due to a lack of coordination, Italy and I lose out big time.

S03: I cede GAL, and misorder the support move into GRE. Yet another mistake. This game isn't going well.

A03: I finally get the support to GRE right but by now it's too late. We appear to be in a stalemate until Russia can get an army into BOH and break into my home centers. Germany has moved to SIL and built A BER which gives me some hope.

S04: I take back GAL as Russia deals with Germany. Two supports to Italy into GRE doesn't quite cut it as Turkey has decided to play the waiting game. I can't understand why he never stabbed Russia in this period as it would have been quite easy and crippling to have sent BLA into SEV and put pressure on RUM as well. I remember Stratagos commenting that there was some narrow-minded play going on and, with all respect to jimgov, I'd agree to some extent, with the qualification that it's absolutely fair to play a strong alliance to the end. I have six solos as Turkey to my name and not one has occured without stabbing Russia for SEV, and encouraging Austria for a year or two before powering through the Balkans as well.

A04: I succumb to the urge. E/G are going after Russia, so I decide to take RUM from my position and cede Serbia to Turkey. No change for me, major disbands for Russia. He disbands in SEV as predicted. I hope at this point that Turkey will try to go for SEV as a breather, but he builds A CON, which is not reassuring. I again misorder my support to GRE (sorry Italy I don't know why these misorders were happening so frequently).

1905: This year was all about getting the Italian army into ALB. He signaled the move in the Spring, and I moved my fleet to TRI in the fall to make way for him. England takes SEV, which is more beneficial of course. However, he takes it with a fleet, which means only a limited breathing room for me against Russia. I must say I admire Russia's perseverance and mindblasting recovery from the 3SC state he was in.

S06: I have a lot of explaining to do for these moves. First in the Spring, Italy and I work on breaking SER. This was good coordination, but I think we imagined that Turkey would use two supports on SER and not support Russia back into RUM, which he did. We would have gained more had he not supported Russia in, but he reads zarat's moves perfectly and, to my great chagrin, apparently still wants to ally with him.

A06: I move to an open Venice. This is no doubt going to be a huge point of contention, and I must offer a big apology to V+. The idea was that I wanted to convert my fleet into an army, as F ALB/TRI can't support SER, and V+ could have converted his army into a fleet. To this end, I took VEN and built an army, hoping to return it to him next year. I am extremely impressed that he kept his cool and didn't go suicidal on me. So I build said army, and he disbands ALB...and in some sense it's the same as having an Italian army in ALB, but in terms of coordination it's a big improvement. Italy is also back down to 5 units and so all is well...for now.

S1907: Goes as planned...army in ALB.

A1907: I make a deadly mistake...instead of supporting hold in SER and attacking RUM with 2 supports, I decide to make the brilliant move of attacking GRE, only to lose SER. I remember spending many minutes debating where to attack GRE from and I picked SER incorrectly over ALB. Italy takes back VEN and builds a fleet, but unfortunately, the desired effect has not been achieved. As I have to disband one of my armies along with the fleet anyway.

1908: Down to 2 SCs, I decide to focus on keeping Turkey at bay and pushing him back down to 5 SCs...in the process I give Russia VIE and BUD. Germany takes WAR - good work by The Czech.

1909: I lose Serbia, but Italy is supporting hold my lone remaining army in TRI as a last bastion.

1910: I feel stupid for not supporting TYR-VIE or moving to BUD, but whatever. At this point I am a mere pawn in the larger game.

1911: I move to VIE, only to find myself unceremoniously ousted, and eliminated after a frankly mediocre game from my end. I'm surprised I lasted 11 years, but I really did expect more stabs and spectacular fireworks to come to my rescue.

Good game. Thanks, V+ for being a total boss and hanging on by the skin of your teeth. jimgov, we're not done yet :P zarat, I have learned a lot from you in this game. Excellent game, and I would say you played the best of all of us seven in terms of strategy. The Czech, gg overall, you threw what you could Eastward and it did help prolong my cause. Gobba - too many fleets! Too many fleets! But seriously, strong game in taking down Troodonte who was fired up with a bunch of units and Italy looking elsewhere. Troodonte - Tough luck mate, it happens to the best of us!

EOG England

When I play Dip, whatever country I play is my “least favorite” country. I always see options I could have had as other countries and feel I am screwing myself up whichever country I have.

1901- As England I expect France to go to the MAO, and despite my thought of opening to the Channel, I went to NTH, NWG, and Yor (just in case I couldn’t trust the French). I couldn’t as it turned out. Adding to my woes was Russia sending two units north. So in the fall I thought I would play it safe, covering London with the Army and risking leaving the NTH open and supporting it to NWY with NWG. France made a cute move going to the Irish Sea, and I believe the only thing that saved my bacon was Germany sneaking into Burgundy (making France forego the Fleet in Brest for two armies to repel the Germany). The second fleet would have provided me with a very early exit, so I acknowledge my survival was due to that Germany army in 01. With my single build I build a fleet to protect LVP, the first in a very long line of fleets (Yes, I know I went overboard, but every build it seemed that what was needed or what could be used first was always a fleet).

1902- France withdrew from Irish to MAO, while Germany made his unexplained move to the Baltic. The east is still tangled, very much to my liking, and France and Germany are chasing each others’ armies around. But, even though Russia took Sweden, I am relatively pleased. Germany is not hostile, and France is backing away. No build for England, like “No soup for you” on Seinfeld.

1903- I can’t figure out how to get the army to Norway where I needed it. As a result Russia gets 3 units in the north, and swaps Sweden for Norway. Germany is no doubt happy, and I start the long dance with France. So many lost opportunities during that dance. But when faced with removing a unit, the “useless army” went away. The east was the least of my worries with only three units to my name.

1904- Germany headed west, opening up his two front war. A/I “looked” to be handling R/T, just no real progress. I was lucky enough to retake Norway and hold it, while supporting my ally, Germany into Sweden. I didn’t wish to do anything to have him change his mind, switch alliances to France, and crush me, so any opportunity I had I supported him somewhere. Russia suffers in the south and removes the unit SEV. I was hoping Russia was borsht. France built AN ARMY. Could have been a lot worse for me. I, of course build a fleet. (should have been an army, oh well).

1905- I am using almost all my forces against Russia, and I hope I can get him to the tipping point by taking STP. But no armies, so it must be a fleet. France offers a peace feeler with the support of my fleet in the Irish Sea, but he was a thorn in my side for the first couple of years, and Germany had never done anything to harm me, so I just let it sit. After I take STP, I build a ………..fleet!

1906- After a full year of peace feelers from France I was in a quandary. I was definitely considering attack Germany, and I changed targets in my orders at least 5 times that year, but time ran out while I had pro-Germany orders in. Unfortunately I suffered a bout of “AVA’s” disease, and misordered two units to the Channel at the same time. I refer to this move as based on “Al’s Heimers” since my first name is Al.

1907- I pushed France’s single fleet around with the two I had assign to France, until he build his second Fleet at the end of the year. I spent a lot of time watching Germany this year. I figured if he was going to stab me, it would be then.


Then next 4 or 5 years were a blur. I had hoped that Turkey was going to turn on Russia, and in a magnificent piece of stupidity, I thought the single fleet in STP would be ok with Russia hopefully facing Germany and Turkey. I regret this now and feel I let Germany down, since if we had held this I think we would have gone into the endgame in a much better position that we actually did. France and I danced, trying to outguess the other, and in the four years I got one center out of it.

I lost STP in 1912, based on my stupid withdrawal from Step, thinking the Germany would keep Russia occupied. But against France I made the right guesses in two straight seasons, picking up POR, SPA and MAR to add to Brest.

In 1913 France was removed from the game, certainly not due to my good play in the prior decade. I took little honor from that fight, he held off both Germany and I for 13 years. I don’t know of many other players who could have done the same.

In 1914 and 15 I tried to support Italy in the south to hold back the Turk, and put as much pressure on Russia in the North as I could.

I gladly voted the draw. I have been known to often snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It could have gone either way I believe, but I do think we all should have been rewarded for the good game, Troodonte especially,….well, everyone but England. He showed himself as having tunnel-vision, unimaginative in most orders, and narrow-minded about his builds. I would like to chalk it off to a down game, and I hope I will still be tolerated in the community in spite of it.

Haha that was a fun eog, gobba! Thanks for the explanations. I didn't mean to sound harsh about the fleets or anything, but I think it was on many peoples minds (the question as to why). Certainly another army in Scandinavia would have helped my cause but I don't blame you since France was holding his ground and germany might have stabbed as you say. Good game.

As my wife says about me, I am nothing if not entertaining.

Here's a question for general discussion.

I've raised this concern in the forum before, and I'm slightly dismayed to see it pop of here in an "example" game designed to teach the proper way to play gunboat: players in a gunboat posting messages about the game to a forum thread. In this case, players posted messages that commented on the status of the game (heading toward a stalemate) and advocated a course of action (vote for a draw). Isn't this forbidden communication? In a gunboat game, shouldn't all diplomacy be conducted via orders and votes?

Bump.

I actually have the same question, but for me it matters more because it led to the premature precipitation of the draw.

@V+ Personally I don't believe so. No one is forced to draw and It would have been foolish for anyone to stab his ally just to break a stalemate IMO. IF someone (other than a player) had been commenting, do you not think they would have been able to see that StP would fall and a stalemate line would be established? True it would be up to the players to decide to continue or draw. England COULD have stabbed Germany, Turkey COULD have stabbed Russia. I was just saying that since we didn't have a commentator and the game was reaching a point where commentary would boil down to StP remains unchanged, Mun remains unchanged, ooh, England and Turkey trade some place in the Med/Spa/GoL oooh, why not just move on. The beginning analysis from Barn3tt was good and gives the people an idea of what they should do. The end is less tricky when you have such high caliber of players, again, IMO.

Any more EOGs?

No, I think the rest of them are still playing. I have probably been eliminated by now..

@ The Czech:

I suppose there's something to be said there, but if the stale mate was so obvious (and I agree that it was) why comment at all? Personally, I think the best way to handle that situation is put in the draw vote, dig in, and wait for the other side to draw or stab. Maybe I'm just a bit of a gunboat purist/traditionalist. There are plenty of differences between playing online and live/postal/email, and this might just be one of them.

I don't know about anybody else, but I, for one, would surely like to hear from the other players about the game and from the moderator.

I'll write something soon.

Well, it looks like we are through with the game and discussion. Anyone care to summarize what we have all learned?