obiwan is probably sleeping away thanks to a tactical Japanese team.

I've never been a big fan of the compartmentalization of American football, where players specialize in one or two skills to the exclusion of all others. Only the coach, QB and Center are really worried about strategy; the other 20 players on the field have their assignments and need to stick to them.

There's plenty of strategy in soccer, you just need to know how to look for it. In general it's a much more fluid form than American football. This morning's game was good example. The OODA loops are much longer in the American game.

@Flashman/Yakoska-

Ok so I'm going to jump into the whole hockey-football goalie debate. It is my personal belief that hockey saves are much more exciting simply due to the extreme skill involved in stopping them. While it's true that a soccer keeper has a much larger net to defend, a hockey goalie only has so much less time to defend against the shot. Picture this: an offensive player shoots a slapshot at approximately 100 mph. If they shoot from 40' away (which is a far shot), the goalie only has approximately 1/3 of a second to react and stop that puck. 1/3 of a second! Since many shots are from much closer, the goalie has literally a blink of an eye to stop a smaller flying rubber disc. To a mathematically inclined person like myself, that is simply fascinating and awe inspiring.

Then of course, there's the whole fact that they do this while on ice. Footing can be lost easily, or perhaps the puck takes a funny hop off of a chip in the ice late in a period. So many things can happen and the goalie is still expected to make the save. Finally, in football, I feel like the keeper usually has a clear line of sight to the ball in order to make the save (please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't watch much football). In hockey, a goalie usually has AT LEAST 2 or 3 people directly in front of him, trying to block his view or deflect the puck at the last instant. So imagine trying to stop a small flying rubber disk when you only have less than 1/3 of a second to do so all while trying to see around 3 bodies positioned 4 feet in front of you. That my friends, is amazing.

For some awesome hockey saves (that are also visually exciting) go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1lr-9Gren0

@yayager:

Yep... they put me to sleep! lol...

Nah... well, yeah, they did, but I made it through a good portion, ESPN said it was halftime when I decided to rest my eyes for two seconds, and that became a couple of hours (slept right through my Mets-Yankees game, too, damn... though the Mets lost, so...)

It was interesting, the part I did see; I already like it better than basketball.

But I found myself thinking, nearly the whole time, just a bit, "I wish this was hockey."
Because in hockey you at least get some SHOTS ON GOAL... there were so few of those! I can't even use the game as a frame of reference for my hockey vs. football goalie argument, one way or another, there were hardly any shots on goal, they couldn't usually make it that far... skill, but still- a few shots on goal would've been nice...

The other big thing that bugged me, and I'll say this and see if the world gets annoyed or not-

Football players, if they are on the whole anything like the ones I saw in Netherlands/Japan, ARE WUSSY, for lack of a better word.

Every single time they slipped or fell down, it's a penalty? They get kicked in the mouth or get their legs twisted as they fall, and have to go off to the sideline on a STRETCHER?

Come on! American Football players get kicked and speared with the metal helmets every play, get driven to the turf on tackles, and football players can't even take a kick to the mouth? The twisted leg thing makes a bit more sense, but still, I have never seen an American football player, or a baseball or hockey player, for that matter, get carried off on a stretcher just because they got their legs entangled, even if they sprain something badly, they limp off with help, but don't just lie there like a casualty of war! AF players go off on stretchers only after something like a 300 lb. defensive end has fallen on top of them or, to take the most famous case, when a huge linebacker like Lawrence Taylor comes flying in with speed and force and blasts a small, frail quarterback, Joe Thiesmann, and he tackles him down so his leg gets caught underhim and bends the other way- after about 400+ lbs. of force have suddenly been applied.

THEN you can go off on a stretcher, Japanese-football-player-I-don't-know... NOT when you just got entangled and tripped or slipped and fell down! Even baseball has them beat here- a guy gets hit in the head with a 95 mph fastball or goes into a fast diving slide and gets their cleat caught on the bag and so it twists around violently, yeah, OK, that's enough for the stretcher maybe- and THEY usally are helped off and limp under their own power with support from others... seriously? Football players for a trip need a STRETCHER?

And every time some one falls it seems like there's a penalty- why not just let them play, a LITTLE more... they're grown men, not ceramics, they won't break into tiny pieces if they drop every now and again...

But it was interesting, I'll probably watch another to try it again, since at least it's got some fun stuff with the ball going everywhere and a couple neat plays/kicks and the international thing going for it...

But seriously- is that NORMAL, for there to be so few shots on goal, and players to draw penalties and go off injured just because of a tripping call, because they fell?

@obiwanobiwan
Diving and histrionics are also the most distasteful aspect of football for me. I feel like such antics should not be rewarded by the referees.

As for physical injuries, keep in mind that American football players are armored head to toe in pads. Same for hockey players. Baseball batters have helmets so only facial hits would be serious. Football(soccer) players have no pads except on their shins. Rugby players don't even have that, lol.

Alright, well, to be as comparable as possible non-pad wise...

Baseball vs. Football.

Baseball you get a helmet (and used to not even get that, you'd play with your cap in the batter's box... until a shortstop named Ray Chapman got hit in the head and the pitch crushed his temple, bled out his ears and died... so yeah, batting helmets make sense I guess lol) but nothing else to protect yourself.

You don't have the metal melmet, facemask, shoulder pads, chest pads, thigh pads, knee pads, and sometimes neck pads American football players have, just a thick pastic helmet.

So the rest of your body is as vulnerable as a footballer's... and I see baseball players sliding headfirst or feetfirst into bases and diving for catches- even running and ramming full speed into the catcher to try and knock the ball loose to score a run (granted the catcher has plenty of gear, helmet and mask and chest protector and knee and shin pads, but talking about the other baseball player, the runner, he's only his helmet, and nothing else.)

I'm just saying does EVERY fall have to be a penalty or stoppage of play?

My God, it's almost like that most hated of sports for me, basketball in that regard!

Well, the time zones seem against me... yeah, South Africa, so all these games are going to follow the 4:00am-6:30am-11:00am schedule for me, at least right now...

I'll try another one, whatever's on at 4:00am tomorrow...

And just to show I'm not looking for huge scoring games, here is my favorite football game EVER (though my favorite player gets penalized for arguing!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8

Your threads have an akward charakter Obi, reading them is like watching an ape in a zoo while it is masturbating. You can tell yourself "its normal, it is an animal and has no humanlike conciousness of its behavior in public", but you still get embarresed :-)

...

OK... that was interesting, von Moricke... lol...

when i first read von Moricke's post I could have sworn it read: "...like watching an ape in a zoo while masturbating". This thread feels much less awkward having reread it.

I guess soccer can only be appreciated by those who've played it at some level. If you've never kicked a ball, you simply don't understand why what is being done is so amazing.

It´s so fun to see people writing about how football is, but not knowing anything aboui it :-) You are comparing a few american sports to football never getting the real difference.
The difference between them is the repeat. American sports are about repeating the same again and again, and so its tactics are about small differences, AF f.e. has come to an dead end in this.
Football is about creating strategies that depend on creativity and one-on-one battle. So there is so much space between every situation, and you allways have to attune to new situations. Strategies in football are about chanelling this "chaos" into a successful outcome.
And i have to admit watching AF is blunting ones mind for that kind of strategies :-)

@yayager: sometimes people see what they wanted to be seen :-)

@von M... guess I should give up watching those planet of the apes movies then ;-D

nuts, I've trolled another thread

obiwan has a lot to say about a supposedly boring sport...

yeah... how can a baseball fan say that football is boring? Maybe cricket is worst but football?

Et tu, TGM?

I didn't say the sport was boring, I said it was interesting, and that I'd even watch some more...

I merely said, as a new viewer of the sport, I would've liked a few more shots on goal, and a few less penalties for a mere tumble...

But it was fun to watch, so why is everyone being so viceral?

(And hey, at least I gave YOUR football a chance... the world just seems to poo-poo American football, and while Asia and Latin/South America are big fans and play great, Europe seems to largely wave away baseball as well, a "child's game...": face a 102 mph fastball coming at you up and in from Randy Johnson and THEN tell me this game's a kiddie game... seriously, I'm trying to watch the World game, why all the dismissing of American sports?)

And, Troondonte, again:

I DID NOT CALL IT BORING- I SAID IT WAS INTERESTING!

"It was interesting, the part I did see; I already like it better than basketball."

Don´t try to turn your "Football is for sissies cause i don´t understand a thing" Thread to a "everybody hates american sports" thing.

You don´t even try to understand football...even the smallest "secret" of the clock counting up is an example how "strange" this football is. Come on you are not that stupid, do you get it?

Well... DO YOU?

I mean, it's not a terrible thing if football's "for sissies" after all, my favorite sport is baseball, and they're sticks and very much "sissies" as well compared to rugby and American Football players...

But seriously, you guys are taking this way too far, I'm trying to get into this sport here, and you treat every question as "You just don't get it."

THAT is annoying for ANY new fan to any sport... and you've YET to answer me!

Did I get a defensive struggle, or are there always so few shots on goal as I saw in Netherlands/Japan?
And WHY is every fall a penalty or stoppage of play, that's something I hate in basketball... if they're not sissies (and maybe they're not I DON'T KNOW, I'M NEEW WATCHING THIS!) then why don't the refs just let them play a bit more, are they going to break if they tumble now and again?

And no, I DON'T get the clock going up... it's not a big issue, I can COUNT (though I didn't know how long a half was, so I didn't know when the half was coming, but now I know... but see, if it went down, then it's just easier... is there a REASON, an advantageous REASON for it to go up rather than down?)

In every teamsport a foul is a stoppage of play...also in american football....

@ Obiwan
One reason is that it looks an awful lot better when adding a few minutes extra time if the clock simply carries on to 93 minutes instead of going to minus three minutes, which is just silly.

Also it's the natural way of doing things. Everone learns to count up before they learn to count down.

@octavius
"That´s a bingo" :-)

There is a lot to dislike about play acting and I'd be certain to 'change a few things' if I were in charge of world football. However, on the point about injuries I have to disagree.

NFL has horrific injuries but the nature of the game and the use of protective gear encourages that. Players can hit harder and therefore do. So, when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong.

Between football and rugby though, football has by far the higher tally of injuries like broken legs. This is because the force involved in a leg on leg tackle - at the point of contact - is the greatest force a human body can achieve 'naked'. The injuries in NFL often involve ruptures, in football, these are common but we also see compound fractures. And I mean see: there are incidents where the bones can be seen sticking out from breaks.

It is the frequency and reality of horrible injuries in football that the players use to gain sympathy in terms of free kicks and sendings off from referees by faking such an injury.

And as for exciting World Cup games: that steps up when the games become a matter of life or death for the teams. Some of the third games in this group stage will be like this (England?). The knockout phase for certain.

In the present World Cup one of the best attackers in world´s football is playing with a broken ellbow. I saw many times player with a mask on the field, because of a broken cheekbone. I think that´s enough about the sissiething...

A quick question about American Football. The one point conversion... The damned thing is so easy that virtually no one has ever missed. Why do you even bother doing it?

I have just realised that my final sentence is ambiguous. England certain to be in the knockout stage? Hmmm Freudian Wish-slip perhaps.

@obiwan: after the first rounds there is no more draws btw, if the score is the same they will play on for a bit longer and then do a 'shootout'. There can be only one world champion!

I'm not a huge football fan, although i live in a country where i'ts by far the most popular sport.
I do enjoy watching sometimes. Especially when there is extreme control of the ball/game. Players doing stuff that i couldn't dream of doing! But i suppose i enjoy watching other sports for the same reason :P

So i say that there is no better sport (to watch)... Just watch what you like! but watch some good action first, then you might enjoy a full match more.

"A quick question about American Football. The one point conversion... The damned thing is so easy that virtually no one has ever missed. Why do you even bother doing it?"

Because there's an option to forgo it for a 2-point conversion? It's a simple tradeoff -- you get one more point if, instead of kicking a 20-yard field goal, you manage to get two yards on a play.