@mac i dont think you can put those drugs into those specfic social groups at all, well espically not in england, i was taught to be responsible when i was grown up and yes i have technically binge drinked (who hasnt on a night out) but i have never started a fight/trouble, throwed up in the street hurt myself etc i have done every drug you mentioned mac- i have never got addicted/stolen anything done or done anything that other people would frown at i have laughed a lot and had some wicked times. so in my experience i do think alot of it is education-in terms of excess and your actions when your intoxicated and start teenagers young and they will learn.

@mps, sorry for the confusion. I followed that news on non-English press, and probably the got distorted a bit... On the newspaper I read it was reported as the introduction of even more graphical pictures. It looks from your reply that the supposedly less graphical pics were just text. The reasoning behind however does not change: "educational text" already had a steady and perceivable effect, so they are going for more "education" with images...

@trim: you lost me when you try to explain why my arguments would be flawed... "alcohol is a dangerous drug weed is not" is not a sentence of mine... what does exactly you could not get out of my reasoning?

As for the social groups and the drugs, at least in Italy that classification applies AS A GENERALISATION. My point - however - was not to classify drugs in relations to social groups. The point was to show how the supposed effects on the "wish to succeed in life" can be easily explained with sociological reasons rather than chemical ones. Besides, the market of drugs is in perpetual evolution and the recent decrease of the price of cocaine and the easy access to heroine that can be smoked instead of being inoculated, is changing the sociological distribution of these drugs very quickly, for example...

As for your experience in terms of use of drugs: I am happy to hear you are a "good boys", but your personal experience with drugs can't be the scientific basis for a generalisation. Drugs do alter perception, self-control, judgement ability, reflexes, intellectual capabilities, etc... The fact that you haven't got in troubles (at least so far) does not change that, I am afraid.

that bit was aimed at invictus. i know drugs alter things mate my point was that if you have been taught self control then you know when to stop before they alter things in enough to be noticable or to the point when you are a menace to yourself and others.

First of all, trim101, you cannot "copywrite" anything and you can't copyright a plant. I don't even see why or how the government would want to have that level of control of marijuana. Please explain this, because you might have a good point in there, I just can't see it.

Alcohol and pot are both dangerous. You can't drive with either. Both do bad things to your body over time. Perhaps pot is somewhat less destructive statistically (although I'm fairly confident less people use it than use booze) but drug culture does so much more damage than drinking culture. Drinking culture is ultimately about camaraderie, while the stoners withdraw from society and piss away their lives. Come on, prove me wrong on that.

Trim said : " alcohol is a dangerous drug weed is not, "

Just out of curiousity, how old are you? Are you a current pot smoker? And do you feel your personal experience colors your objectivity?

o ever so easily mate, have you ever seen people who are stoned getting into a fight or causing trouble- no of course you havnt because it doesnt happen, whereas alcohol cause lots of violence/rapes/public disorder offences, if anything the weed culture is more about camaraderie and having a laugh then alcohol is, stoners do not withdraw from society at all you dont see stoners on the streets begging for money do you?and to make another point (and if anyone recognises who im quoting from then good on you) if you think that weed is no good for society go and burn all the good cds you have becuase im damn sure that the artists or wrote those songs were real high on drugs. copywrite was the wrong word patent would have been the write word, i need to look it up but im 99% sure i read/heard it on a very factually accurate program. and why the government would want that control is answerable with one word: money!

@ treefarn im 23 and no im not and i never really was but i have a number of friends who smoke it, so my personal experience of the drug does not colour my objectivity because ironically enough givern my arguments weed normally makes me throw up even the smell can get me sometimes so if i did let my personal experience influence me it would be to argue the other side

Patent is the wrong word too. You have to invent something to get a patent, so only God could get the patent for weed.

I might not see them on the streets but I've seen friends and neighbors throw away their futures and go to jail because they got in with the bunch who use drugs. Alcohol can do that to, don't get me wrong, but drug culture is inextricably entwined with criminal culture and other seedy elements.

You can use marijuana and not get hooked, one of my best friends has done it a few times, but it sets you up for a much harder fall than alcohol does. Society widely accepts alcohol while it at the very least looks down on weed. The reason for that is that it's far easier to drink responsibly than to smoke responsibly.

I'm with Invictus on on this one. Marijuana CAN destroy your life. There are recreational drug users and there are life-style drug users. The recreational ones never realize when they cross that line, but it can destroy all motivation to do just about anything. If you haven't seen it Invictus, good for you, be grateful. But don't assume it isn't there, just because you haven't seen it.

Thank you. I assume you meant to write trim101 instead of my name the second time, since that's my whole argument that I have seen what it does.

Oops, yes. It was meant to be addressed to trim101.

well whatever the word the american government tried to do it!there are drugs that do make you throw away your life im not disputing that anything in excess will do that, my point is that weed is not even in the same leauge as alcohol when it comes to distroying lives, and also invitus i disagree with the statement that its far easier to drink responsibly than smoke responsibly because thats just plain rubbish society looks down on weed becuase its illegal but how can something thats natural alot more natural than booze be considered illegal it doesnt make sense, also false antidrug propganda hasnt helped weeds cause. the number of alcohol related deaths in the uk in 2006 8,758 the number of marijuna related deaths 0!do the maths.

which also means that i have proved you wrong!

sorry for the triple post but invitus how old are you mate?

McDonalds hamburgers don't kill you either, on the spot. That doesn't make them good for you. And a lifetime of McDonalds hambergers......

yes but booze will kill you a damn sight quicker than weed!

I don't think anyone is arguing that booze is good for you though. I think people, Invictus, myself, are arguing that pot isn't harmless.

i never said it was invitus was arguing that pot is alot worse than alcohol which is clearly wrong

You just said "yes but booze will kill you a damn sight quicker than weed!" That doesn't make it good for you, or even a better choice for you. That logic is like saying bleeding to death is better than dying from gunshot wounds, because bleeding to death kills you quicker.

Saying alcohol kills you slower isn't a convincing response to Invictus's statements.

(I meant bleeding to death kills you slower)

@trim... I keep on not understanding why you attack my point of view. Go back and re-read my original reply. I was quoting a scientific study that scores alcohol 5th and marijuana 11th. I never took position on the case "is weed bad for society", but even if I implicitly had, my reply would eventually support your case, not oppose it...

So, if you want me to reply to your objections, you have first to point me what I wrote that is "flawed" and why you think so. Then I will be able to articulate more.

I'm almost 19, which means I can get into the bars on campus here for some terrific, unknown reason.

Just saying that you can't die from weed directly doesn't negate that fact that it's dangerous.

mac i was just talking about you putting drugs into social catorgories im sorry im not that good at articulating what i mean.but you can die from alcohol directly so what is the most dangerous drug?@treefarn no the best choice would be to do neither but if you are to do one weed is better!no offence invictus but im guessing your american as well and being only 19 when the legal age is 21 im guessing you havnt had that much exposure to alcohol?

As an American I have the right to plead the Fifth.

Sorry about lack of clearity. I'm not very good at multitasking. I did intend to type prohibition not proabition. Yes I'm aware of the time differance in Europe just expected some would sooner or later log on. The study by Invictos confirmed inpart my thoughts about the current age limit. I was all so thinking of the social setting where a person learns to drink, the paticular societies attatudes and how they affect outcome.

invictus i will take that to mean you have experience of it in the "safe" environment of university i dont mean this as an insult, but i dont think you have had enough exposure to alcohol in the mainstream to be able to have a truely informed opinion about weed vs booze

Trim, I am 39. Have I had enough exposure? Because I happen to think Invictus is dead on.

Or better yet. Trim, you are only 23. I don't mean this as an insult, but i don't think you have had enough exposure... If I might quote you.

lol its a fair enough point in america but in england it doesnt really count espically as i have worked in many pubs since i was 16!its fair enough that your sidingwith invictus im just saying that he cant even legally drink in his own country and hes arguing alchols case against weed which i do think is a bit silly!