@bo

no, but they would NEVER use them as the major predicting tool for a November election.

Major predicting tool? Obviously not, they would conduct more polls between May and November. Doesn't mean they're completely discountable, as you seem to imply. There's a bajillion polls on there, some as high up as +20. Tell me with a straight face that that kind of consistent blowout across polls, months of time apart, couldn't be used to suggest that Bernie polled far above Trump than Hillary did and would have beaten him.

@bo I was actually responding to bb, but on second reading I don't think he was making the point I thought he was making. For the record, I'm happy to pay tax. Render unto Caesar.

No really bo just stop.

What most people forget about taxes is, that a big part benefits the whole society. It's only the part that get 'lost' in the system due to corruption and inefficiency and such where we have to work that everything runs smoother.

@Kakarroto

that's PARTLY true, but there's also a section of taxes in which some people believe are not their responsibility. I personally am fine paying taxes for healthcare, but if others don't want to pay taxes to pay for other's healthcare: should we force them?

it's not JUST corruption, though i'll admit the corruption never helps

not everyone believes they're responsible for all others in society.

Yeah, I know, it's difficult to tell which is right ... if the decisions of our parents, greatparents, greatgreatparents (and so on), which have led us into our current society, where there are many people born here who didn't have the choice but did benefit from the current system; is more valid; or if the view of these people, paying into a system where they had no choice but to contribute or be seen as 'breaking the law' are more valid.

Both seem to have at least some ethical ground where they can stand. Would be great if we could find a way where everyone can be the most happy possible. Though compromises tend to leave both (or better: all) sides with less than their possible maximum.

Bo still hasn't learned polls aren't as reliable as everyone once thought after pretty much every poll said Trump would get destroyed by Clinton, huh? The left right now is pathetic.

I see washed-up liberals.... they don't even know they are washed up and finished.

Oh My!! "Evidence suggests that voting information in at least 3 states was falsified as a result of a possible massive hack." Any even after their illicit voter fraud, the Democrats were STILL unable to win!

I guess America DOES love Trump.

<mike drop>

I mean.. 2 million people in the popular vote disagree...

Love is a interesting word. They love Trump the way people love rectal exams because its fun letting someone shove objects up ones anus

bo_sox48 is right, of course. Bernie would have crushed Donald. Here's to hoping similar conditions hold into the 2020. Bernie remains far more popular than both Donald and Hillary among independents and new registrants. There also would have been far more enthusiasm from the Democratic base to head out and knock on doors – you know, what actually wins elections. Bernie is also excellent at staying on message and dismissing low blows, something Hillary and her campaign had trouble with throughout the race.

I would rather see Keith Ellison or Elizabeth Warren, personally. Bernie has done his part. By 2020, dealing with all this, he may well be washed up.

As for the computer scientists, I hope they controlled for socioeconomic conditions between counties. Rich, conservative counties may be more likely to have electronic voting machines. (Even so, maybe the the more conservative counties are the ones most likely to engage in pro-Trump fraud. After all, pro-United Russia fraud in Russia occurs most often in rural areas where United Russia will already win if I recall correctly.)

I'm much more interested by the last few paragraphs in the CNN article. At least a few Republican electors are mobilizing to stop Triump? I hope they are working with the Dems, because if they split their vote and the election is referred to the House – well maybe it could work anyway?

Rich counties are more likely to vote democrat, as rich counties are more likely to be educated.

Electronic voting should just be banned. It's dumb as fuck.

Maybe have a machine that counts the ballots afterwards (since there'd be only one attack vector), but fuck any voter-facing software.

Rich counties go right because they like their money and don't want anyone else touching it, which Republicans supposedly are okay with.

Condescension: They mention said machines (optical scanners) in the article.

Hey Bo, can i touch your money?

I could buy you a grilled cheese at McDonalds if you want.

but i want to touch your money! you're not a 'rich republican' are you?

i want to just 'touch' it; i won't take it. i'm not a democrat legislator.

Sure, you can touch it. Come on over. In fact, bring your money too, so I can touch yours.

Let me know when you're gonna quit your creepfest.

you can touch my money; just because i'm republican doen't mean you can't touch my money. people touch my money all of the time, especially in the places i spend it. (they even put it in their pants pockets!)

Condensation, is it your point to say that democrats are rich and educated and republicans are poor and uneducated?

I am rich, educated and Republican.

I am sure it was the muh, muh, russians. Rofl.

What a bunch of losers.

Brad, do you really think my statement was "no Republicans are educated"?

Democrats have a higher median wage and are much more likely to have a degree.