*council damnit autocorrect

In episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

Here is the relevant passage from the book. Emphasis mine.

"No one answered. The noon-bell rang. Still no one spoke. Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. ****At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.****
`I will take the Ring,' he said, `though I do not know the way.'"

It's been a while since I read the books, but the movie's references to the ring's effect on Frodo occur when they are attacked by the Nazgul at Weathertop. I'm not sure if that's in the book or not, but I feel like it probably is.

Open to interpretation, but it's certainly a possibility. But you also have to consider that he was a very peaceful creature, this Hobbit, who had already been ripped away from his home and thrust in to what, to him, was a great adventure in even getting to the Council...i.e. he had *no* idea what he was buying in to. His sole desire was not to destroy the ring, but jut to get back to Bilbo, and the quickest path back home was forward - accepting the mission.

Also, consider this: if he was already "poisoned" by the will of the Ring, why would he agree to carry it to it's doom? The poisoning of the ring commands it's owner to hold the ring, not give it up or destroy it. So, with that in mind, I would have to say this event speaks more to the nature of a Hobbit than it does to the immediate power of the ring over Frodo.

The Ring needed to be carried away from the council though in order to be found. It may have even "known" that even a hobbit could not resist its power at Mount Doom (which Frodo couldn't resist there). Best case, the hobbit, the weak hobbit, dies and the ring is found. Worst case, he brings it to Sauron himself.

It's been a long time since I read the book, but from what I recall, I think the ring is given much more presence in the movies in general.

@Krellin

The Ring wants to go back to Mordor. Of anyone, I think the Ring would chose a Hobbit to take it there. Everyone else is more prone to corruption and is likely to take the Ring for himself, making it much harder for the Ring to get back to Sauron.

I agree with Dubmdell.

Good point - I was looking at the finer detail of the mission - to destroy the ring - but clearly the Ring had no problem with Frodo taking the ring to Mordor, and really only interfered with his journey upon the final decision to keep it or destroy it.

That being said, when others did possess the ring, they had no desire to release it - in other words, I don't really think the ring had any concern over whom carried it.

How do we know the Ring wanted to return to Mordor, as opposed to simply desiring to be wielded? When ...dang, can't rmember his name...Baramor? The one that takes about 15 orcs arrows trying to save Frodo after he tries to steal the Ring..when he holds the Ring he is consumed with the desire to use the Ring, not take it Mordor. Was that not the power of the Ring?

Further, think of the Elven Queen; (Rats! Another name escapes me!) when Frodo offers her the Ring and she resists, he considers herself to have passed a great trial, because she knew that she would have wielded the power of the Ring to rule -- she didn't' have any inherent desire to return it to Mordor, did she?

Psst. Boromir, Galadriel.

I prefer to think that this was Frodo's better nature speaking, or even an inspiration from the divine beings in Tolkien's mythos.

I agree with dipplayer. I wouldn't go so far as to credit his statement to divine inspiration, but I believe Frodo was, by nature, a good creature who recognized the importance of the task at hand.

Some interesting quotes from the Council of Elrond.

Toward the beginning of the Council, after the tale of the ring by Elrond and the interjections first by Boromir and then Aragorn:

"'Then it belongs to you, and not me at all!' cried Frodo in amazement, springing to his feet, as if he expected the Ring to be demanded at once.
'It does not belong to either of us,' said Aragorn; 'but it has been ordained that you should hold it for a while.'
'Bring out the Ring, Frodo!' said Gandalf solemnly. "The time has come. Hold it up, and then Boromir will understand the remainder of his riddle.'

There was a hush, and all turned their eyes on Frodo. He was shaken by a sudden shame and fear; and he felt a great reluctance to reveal the Ring, and a loathing of it's touch."

And then near the very end right before Frodo speaks up saying he will take the ring are these words:

"A great dread fell on him {Frodo}, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken."

And then after Frodo speaks, Elrond talks of "this task having been appointed to [Frodo]".

Thus I think that while the Ring had already had an effect on Frodo and was attempting to use Frodo (or any of its bearers previous) to get back to its master (as Bilbo himself jumped at the chance to carry the Ring before Frodo, and Gollum himself ever sought the ring after Bilbo stole it), that the interpretation of the ring poisoning Frodo remains a possibility. I think however that the true driver for Frodo taking the ring was rather that a Higher Fate, (which is spoken of as having brought the Council together in the first place), was 'ordaining' that the ring should be carried to Mount Doom and destroyed by Frodo, in spite of the 'despair or folly' apparent in such a task. Thus, in my reading of that chapter, Tolkien envisioned that Fate or some higher power was overruling/overpowering any draw the Ring had on Frodo and driving him to accept the task of taking the ring to Mordor.

I'll have to go watch that scene again though to see whether this interpretation is captured at all in the movie.

Given Tolkein's personal theology, I think Tolkein is describing an occurance in which a small, insignificant person agrees to a great undertaking which he feels is far beyond his meager powers. The decision is so momentous and so unlikely, given the character's usual nature, that it seems to come from outside himself - or, as dipplayer suggested, /does/ come from a divine source.

In agreement with dipplayer and 2WL -- if Frodo's action/decision is in fact credited to the influence of the Ring, as opposed to credited to the nature of Frodo/Hobbits...it kind of diminishes Frodo.

I think of Forrest Gump - when that movie came out, everyone talked about what a great Hero Forrest Gump was. In fact, Gump was a retarded, and for a great deal of the movie he seemed to be drifting through greatness without actually realizing the greatness of the moment, or recognizing the danger he was in. He did what he was told, often without conscious thought, and thus, in my book, was not much of a hero.

So by the same token, a Frodo who chooses a dangerous quest by compulsion is no longer such an interesting character

Right on krellin, I was just about to post something similar. Frodo's quest to destroy the Ring was undertaken by his truly good nature, not under corruption by the power of the Ring itself. For Frodo to be the hero of the story, he had to choose to take such a tremendous risk, knowing his life was at stake.

On the other hand (to play devil's advocate), if in fact the Ring did compel Frodo to carry it to Mordor, does that not in fact make Sam the true hero of the story? Tolkien himself once said that he considered Sam to be the real hero of the LOTR, so that would fit in nicely with the author's own analysis as well as Sam's actions.

Isn't Sam the only character to willingly give up the ring once it was in his possession?

Oh - Sam is totally the real hero. Frodo is the Ring bearer and his path is set, and either by noble intent or by the corruption of the ring, he must go to Mordor. Sam could bail out at any time...and in fact is told my Frodo to take a hike. But he, too, has made a vow and in the face of withering distress he carries through. Sam is indeed the true hero.

Great comments.

Sam and Bilbo both willingly gave up the ring, though Bilbo with much more prodding and almost on accident and Gandalf's intervention.

In the book the ring's power is much more subversive. They had to play up the ring's domination powers in the movies, it would be a little difficult to show otherwise. I think Frodo took the trip out of his own goodness but with a little prodding from the ring.

The ring did care who carried it. That's why it left Gollum and let Bilbo find it. Gandalf talks about the ring doing that when he speaks to Frodo about leaving the Shire. The ring all about returning to Sauron and having a hobbit, which remember almost no other beings really know but Gandalf in MiddleEarth, take it wouldn't seem completely stupid.

Also, Faramir rejected the One Ring in the books. It's one of the reasons I dislike the movies some. Faramir tries for the ring in the movies and really shouldn't the only man able to resist it be allowed to keep that.

Lots to contemplate. I have to step out for the afternoon, but I'll return with a flurry of comments.

Writing a paper, are we? lol

This is why I love these forums.

Well there is no correct answer I think. It's like discussing who Tom Bombadil really is.. Is he a. incaranation of Eru or one of the Valar. Tolkien never answered that question on purpose.

Tolkien nerds FTW!

"... there is no correct answer..." Every strongly opinionated English teacher in the world disagrees! I never read a book in class for which the English teacher didn't know *exactly* what the author was thinking! lol (OK...perhaps that's a little hyperbole...but it's mostly true...)

Yeah but do they agree with each other though?

Padding The Hobbit out to three movies makes me wish that Peter Jackson had gotten super successful, the way he is now (what studio is going to say no to a proven superstar like him?), before making the Lord of the Rings. Then he could have made six movies, one for each volume, without being too long.