To elaborate, sometimes it's full-on stabs after we've formed an alliance, and other times it's just where they tell me we'll work together, and then immediately attack me in year 1 (which I don't understand--why not get the neutrals first and then attack other countries? Maybe I'm making too many demands, but isn't that what *negotiation* is for?)

Either way, it's annoying, and I'd like to know some strategy on how to get and keep other players on my side.

Do you have examples?

@Vash, that's good advice, but sometimes everyone seems to want to stab me, and it would truly be more beneficial to make an alliance.

Lots of times it happens really early on, which I don't get. In a world game as China, for example, both Pacific Russia and India said they would work with me, but they both attacked me after repeatedly saying they would not.

Don't trust people.

@TR, oh, of course. That's an important rule of anything, especially Diplomacy. But I think that you need to have someone that's making moves that help you. I've heard that the best players try to control what everyone else is doing.

As an abstract example, it's hard to win as, say, England when France, Germany, and Russia all seem determined to antagonize you.

Always have a mindset of a solo. That way you will always be looking for an upper hand against your ally's. Which, even if they attempt to stab you, you will be in a position to protect yourself or fight back. And give them huge offers if they stay with you. Even if you decide not to give them all you promised, they'll be more tempted to work with you until you stab them in the future. They won't want to stab you until you give them what you promised.

The two main keys are to make it challenging for them to stab you and even more importantly make it worth their while not to. It's on of those "happy wife/happy life things", as long as you're keeping him happy, showing value to him, helping in his growth, being fair, coming across as trustworthy, and maybe even being fun to talk to then chances are he'll keep the alliance going for a long time.

Stabs happen either when there's a better offer on the table, they don't trust you, or the stab is simply too good to pass up. Do your best to remain his best option and never put yourself in a situation where even you would stab you if you were in their shoes.

Well, I went through a few of your games.

gameID=152265 - you went and stabbed Greece even though it was blatantly obvious that Carthage was coming at you. Greece had wanted peace.

gameID=153205 - Not going to go too in depth, but Pac-Rus probably had you as a target from the beginning. With that opening, why oh why did you contest Thailand. That made India an enemy.

gameID=152387 - you saw the English stab coming from the 1903 builds....yet did nothing about it. At that point you should've broke off right away with Italy and hit England with everything. You probably could've saved Germany's fleet.

gameID=151115 - That's just your fault.

Let me know if you want more :D

If I would advise anything after looking through your games, it is play more conservatively. There are those odd times when players rush out of the gates and grab a quick solo. But you tend to spread out to too many targets, and are loath to give up gains to defend your weaker flanks.

You should have a proactive plan on how you and the other power are going to work together to their benefit. Communicate this plan to the other power so that they understand that working with you is better than not working with you (such as by rudely stabbing you).

If that doesn't work, then:

1. You need to improve your ability to come up with plans that benefit the other power. Sometimes you might think your plan should be attractive to them, but it's really just good for you and not them. Most of the time, this is the problem -- your plan just wasn't beneficial enough for them to make them not want to stab you.

2. You need to improve your ability to communicate your plan to them. It might be a fantastic plan that is very much to their advantage, but if they don't get it, they're not going to be on board.

3. If you truly have a good plan that highly benefits them, and you've communicated it very well so they understand how it works, and they still stab you anyway, then:

a. You need to work on your people skills, because perhaps they are trashing you just because they don't like you despite your brilliant plan, or

b. You need to play with smarter opponents, because they just don't get it. (More likely, you weren't as good at communicating as you thought you were.)

The likelihood of a stab and timing of such stab also heavily depends on what type of game you're playing.

PPSC games often have stronger alliances than WTA games because there is almost no downside to having a "strong second" place finish.

Anon games and named games also differ as well. Anon games mean your actions and press matter much more when an opponent decides whether you're trustworthy, reliable and smart. In named games, I *always* check out my opponents' profiles to glean information about their strengths and weaknesses as a player from their stats. That plays no small part in how negotiations will proceed and whether potential allies will honor the outcomes.

Good advice people, thanks! And yeah, I tend to spread myself out a bit too much sometimes.

I actually discussed this at length in a School if War some years ago. My recommendations are as follows:

Stabs occur when one or more of the following occurs: (a) your ally becomes idle -meaning that in the year (s) to come, he sees that allying with you will not net him a reliable source of builds (b) he has units bordering your vacant centers or is otherwise closer to your centers than you are, (c) when a country near you is eliminated (or close to it) and he is talking more frequently to someone else than you, (d) he anticipates you not seeing growth in the coming year and can stab so that you go down while he goes up.

There are other more minor reasons, but to best prevent a stab, operate to reduce these things from happening by (a) make sure your ally has a goal that you both can work toward and that sees you BOTH growing (or at least you getting bigger for sure), (b) you keep healthy agreements that keep his units far enough from your centers to give you an advanced warning of a stab. Where this is not possible, station a unit or two to counter his presence, (c) make sure you keep up on press with your ally and others around you. One message per season isn't enough. That's like seeing one advertisement for a company on TV per 3 months. You're not going to buy the product of something if that company's competition is advertising more. And (d) plan ahead to make sure you're always making gains. Countries that are growing don't see stabs. Instead, they see gang-ups. it's often better to be ganged up on than stabbed since there are more people that can change sides in your favor.

These things require you to read the map constantly, use foresight and planning and to talk regularly. Be the last person to send a message each season.

"(b) he has units bordering your vacant centers or is otherwise closer to your centers than you are"

I think this is a big one. However much you sweet talk someone, if there is a substantial benefit to someone stabbing you, they will do it if they're a strong player. That means that you need to make sure you use the board and unit positioning to deter a stab just as much as you need to use press.

tape phonebooks around your torso

Brilliant advice!

Now, what's the best way to get them on my side in the first place?

What's a phonebook?

It's the mobile version of Facebook. Try to keep up with the times.

The way to get your ally not to stab you is to remember that:
1. It's easier for people to say yes than it is for them to say no.
2. People care as much about being right as they do about doing well.

From 1- ask your ally for things constantly. Make suggestions. Link moves that you make in their favor with similar moves in your favor. Encourage them to make builds that make it harder for them to attack you. Get their momentum going away from you.

From 2- Don't just explain why your ally should work with you. Get your ally to explain to you why you two should work together. No matter how good you are at convincing your ally, he is even better at convincing himself.

Reading these, I can think back to times when THM, VI, and uclabb used these techniques on me! No wonder I've never been able to stab any of them successfully.

I dunno? Don't play Diplomacy?

You can also try mithril armor, nothing gets through that.

The key to avoiding a stab from Petey Wig? Don't play in a game with him.

It's really the only way. ;)

Just play with Tasnica. He's always everyone's best friend forever and, if perceived otherwise, there is clearly an unfortunate misunderstanding.

I've been a part of such a misunderstanding before.

Based on an admittedly small sample size, peterwiggin has stabbed me in zero percent of the games we've played together and VillageIdiot has stabbed me in one hundred percent.

@VI: I don't think I've ever even tried to stab you, in three games!
@THM: in at least one of those games, VI didn't so just stab you, he also convinced all of your other neighbors to stab you.

Boy, I'd like to sticky this thread and have it be the top thread seen!

"... and THEN VI immediately proceeded to stab a bunch of innocent babies directly in the face for no reason at all. He's a cold blooded monster I tell ya!!!!"