Well, of course your salary would be a great deal lower and without benefits if you negotiated it on your own, but why not!

Perhaps it's the "only thing you can tell" because you haven't looked into the question particularly thoroughly. I'm sure if it is such a bad deal, you and your colleagues can vote to end it, also

"Well, of course your salary would be a great deal lower and without benefits if you negotiated it on your own, but why not! "

Umm no, maybe if you're a bad teacher without experience. And if you are, then you shouldn't have those in the first place.

I strongly suspect I could have negotiated equal or better pay myself. As to benefits, I don't need them. I get those from my full-time job. This is an adjunct position.

strongarmed? lol But Unions are only there to protect you...you know, from all those deadly work conditions in the class room...accidental pencil slivers under the fingernail and whatnot...

You don't know how good you got it!

Wait until you get into your career and start making real money and go up a few tax brackets....

I already pay a crazy amount of taxes. That, I honestly don't mind as much. I wish my taxes weren't wasted so much, but that's a different issue. What this union is doing is straight-up theft.

First 30 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR1l01cZQV0

Seriously though, it's because the union is there to benefit the collective, not just you individually.

"Seriously though, it's because the union is there to benefit the collective, not just you individually."

1) That would be fine, although I'm not convinced they're helping anyone.

2) If I don't need the help, why can't I opt out? If they're really so great, most people would stay without it being compulsory, right? A few people like me wouldn't matter.

Abge - saying "I don't mine paying high taxes" and "my taxes are wasted" is contradictory, as best.

In other words....let me combine your statements: "I don't mind other people wasting my money."

By the way -- union dues....are taxes.....are wasted....it's all the same. Hate 'em all, or don't hate any.

@krellin

Let me be more clear. Some people object to taxes even if they were spent with 100% efficiency. My objection to being taxed is the waste, not the taxation itself.

I think there's a difference between what a government could/should do and what a group of random people could/should do.

"1) That would be fine, although I'm not convinced they're helping anyone.

2) If I don't need the help, why can't I opt out? If they're really so great, most people would stay without it being compulsory, right? A few people like me wouldn't matter."

1) I would say they are, although different unions have different levels of efficacy. I can only speak to a couple of unions here in Canada (I assume you're not Canadian?). But you would go to your union if you needed help with your pension, if you had a workplace grievance, etc.

2) Because part of the power of the union is that very few people are allowed to work and not be in it at the same time. It's about exerting control over the labour supply, plain and simple. For better or worse, your union wants to be able to decide who is in and who isn't.

If union membership wasn't compulsory, then you'd see less union efficacy as people left, and then more people would leave, causing even less union efficacy, etc. It'd be a vicious cycle.

To be clear, I'm talking about Teaching Unions, specifically. There could very well be helpful unions in other industries. I honestly wouldn't really know.

"If union membership wasn't compulsory, then you'd see less union efficacy as people left, and then more people would leave, causing even less union efficacy, etc. It'd be a vicious cycle."

Why would people be leaving if the union was helpful? It doesn't make sense. Especially for a highly skilled job like a college lecturer, where scabs are few and far between.

Live in a right to work state and you don't have to join the union.

People don't pay in right to work states because freeloading is a great american past time.

"Live in a right to work state and you don't have to join the union."

A better option may be to try to get my state to become right-to-work.

It's not theft. You're paying Union dues. You have a Union job. That's why you have good wages, benefits, and a pension.

If not for the Union, you'd be working for room and board.

Bargaining is not easy. The fact that you think you can do better is laughable.

You're an ungrateful moron.

What a terrible OP from a freeloading scab.

There should be a way to opt out of it, but you may have to do some digging. I know that the UPS union had a way of letting people get the benefits but not actually have to join in the union but there were several forms you filled out. From personal experience though , at UPS at lest, the union was needed.

First of all, you aren't being "strongarmed" to pay dues or forced to be in a union. You knew you would be in a union when you accepted the offer and if you had such a problem with the idea, you could've sought work elsewhere.

Also, it is unfair to say that you could negotiate equally good compensation. First of all, you probably couldn't (the data bears this out: unionized workers do better than their non-unionized counterparts) and second, if you could, it would only be because the union has already successfully established a baseline compensation package your position through collective bargaining. Workers at Toyota factories in the US benefit from the work of their union brethren at Ford, GM and Chrysler.

You can't opt out of the union because, as others have noted, the union gains its leverage by controlling the labour supply. If you opted out, you would not only damage the union's position but you'd also be receiving the benefits of the union's work (higher wages and benefits, job security, grievance protocols, etc.) without paying dues.

Also, in general, the longer you stay at a job, the more visible the benefits of union membership become. If you've only recently started, its unlikely you've needed to file a grievance or take paternity leave or draw on pension benefits or experienced a pay cut, a wage freeze or a round of layoffs. If you've only been there a few months, its easy to only see the garnished wages and get indignant.

On a personal note, I was in a union when I was a teaching assistant in graduate school. I was paid more than $35 an hour which was much more than my friends who were TAs at non-unionized schools earned. Maybe your union just sucks but presumably a majority of your colleagues support the union -- other your local would vote to disband.

Anyway, this thread was meant to deliberately antagonize and has no purpose except to warm the hearts of union bashing scum.

@Frank I believe there's always a way to opt out. They just don't make it public knowledge and it's a pain to do.

If "Right To Work" is the answer, then why the misnomer?

It confers no "rights" nor provides any "work".

Call it Union Busting. That's what it is.

BTW, MLK spoke out against this nonsense as well. It's nothing new.

I guess mapleleaf and Putin were able to make the same points as me but more succintly!

Speaking of 'opting out', we should be able to mute abgemacht. I shouldn't have to read his filthy union hating boss loving scum posts in order to visit the forum.

@CF: No, you are wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_shop#United_States

@Frank I know of one person who was able to. They paid limited union dues but were unable to vote. That could of been a Teamster thing though.