Additionally, for all you knew, someone was sitting an account for someone else. You wouldn't know this. I intend to bring this up with the mod team as 2WL's comments are 2WL's and not come down from an Admin as official. They are not a viable practice when sitting is a possibility. You never now *who* might be involved in the game and your communication to player A could be sent to player B who is in the game or Player A could be sitting for player B. It is unacceptable to discuss a gunboat, period.

Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean others don't remember as well. It's publicly available information, even to non-members of this site.

Also when y2k PM-ed me yesterday, why am I leaving, I looked up the thread mentioned above, because I wasn't sure whether I can answer him at all. I saw he was in the game, so I answered him, sorry, you are in the game, I cannot answer. As I said, feel free to turn to the mods.

Draugnar: a) report me to the mods, b) I personally emailed them asking their position on the issue discussing GB-s in PM, hence the quote from 2WL.

And I have already written the mods with three solid reasons why it isn't a good idea asking for the judgment of the admins (not 2WL, a new mod who might make an error in judgment - love you 2WL but that was a bad call).

HEre is the etxt of my mod email.

Lady and Gentlemen,

It has come to my attention that rokakoma discussed our game with other players while it was going on. This is problematic for three possible reasons.

One: Even if he knows exactly who is in the game at the start, he doesn’t know who might be sitting for someone else. For all he knew, he was talking with someone playing the game. Considering the gunboating community on this site is small compared to the full press one, it is not unreasonable to expect a sitter to be in the small group.

Two: Even if no sitter is involved, the size of the GB community means that word of mouth could get that discussion to another player and alter the game.

Three: One nation – one player. We have said it for a long time, If he is getting outside advice, it is unfair to those of us who don’t do this, especially a non-gunboat player like myself.

Additionally, it has come to my attention that 2WL has “approved” this action by him. I would like a final declaration made by the admins based on my points above if this is acceptable or not. If you all deem it so, fine, but I will not play gunboat under those conditions. It is your site to do with as you please, but I don’t believe allowing *any* communication about an ongoing anon gunboat is *ever* acceptable.

Draugnar, I would gladly share my entire PM history with you, but sadly I cannot scroll back long enough. I hereby authorize the mods to make my every PM regardind this game available to the public, if they see that as a solution.

Draug you make me sick, hence I'm finally saying good by to you. People like you destroy the nice things in this world, and I would like to get as far as I can from to, before I get contaminated.

"Draugnar: a) report me to the mods, b) I personally emailed them asking their position on the issue discussing GB-s in PM, hence the quote from 2WL. "

Whoa....did rokakoma actually just admit that he discussed on on-going anon game in PM? Uhhh....good lord, about 2 years ago this occured in a game - Obi and I did the same thing (discussed in PM an ongoign game we were in), we got the mod smack down (thanks oh-fairest-of-mods Abge) and learned to never, ever, ever discuss an on-going game in such a manner.

That's actually pretty fucking obvious, and you would have to be a total mental midget to not grasp the concept of "don't discuss an ANONYMOUS GUNBOAT" game....kind of defeats the purpose on BOTH counts....good lord...

Just so everyone is aware, before Roka pushed this thread back up to the top today, I sent a personal apology to him and hoped he would get feeling better. He responded by thrashing my name yet some more in this forum post.

Here is what I sent:

"Look, we both made mistakes. I've explained my tinking, but I don't have your GB experience and clearly didn't interpret your attacks as you intended me too. So for upsetting you, I am sorry. don't leave just because you played a noob like me."

I even left the typo in place. Now, tell me again who the ass is? JMO can verify I am telling the truth because I was chatting with him at the time I sent that and told him about it.

With JMO's permission, I would even share his and my discussions on this whole sordid set of circumstances. Roka, get professional help, bud. I may be a hothead, but I don't make myself physically ill over others actions in a game. You really need psychiatric help.

Gentlemen,

The mods are aware of the issue. Perhaps everyone could take a step back and calm down while we wait to hear from them. This was clearly an intense game for a vsriet of reasons and I think it would behoove us all to cool off before this is exacerbated any further.

No problem, abge.

in the interval I'll just grab a hotdog and a pepsi max if that is ok

PepsiMax is for pussies. Real men drink Coke Zero.

Any chance this thread is available in IMAX 3 somewhere?

lol, these forum codes are a failure.

roka what the fuck? You attacked Holland to get an SC to build in Marseilles instead of just pulling a unit back from what you yourself deemed an unnecessary region to cover in Italy? That's just dumb dude, especially when England hadn't finished setting up the stalemate line up north and had some problems getting the right type of unit in (hence convoying into Holland).

Draugnar's wrong to say you were going for a 2wd, that's obvious, but if you seriously went to "borrow" an SC from England unnecessarily, that's just incredibly poor planning and it's no surprise it got misinterpreted. *I* thought it was a stab reading the board until you said it.

Shit, you *got the build you needed anyway without the stab* -- why did you do it? England wasn't stabbing you. This is ridiculous.

You definitely played the major part in screwing up this endgame on my read of the board. Not the whole part, Draugnar made his own mistakes later, but nothing you said explaining your A21 moves makes any sense and it's obvious to me you provoked the E-F tension that eventually led to Russia winning the game.

Every time the wound starts to heal, someone rips the scab right off.

Actually, he said he tried for Holland because Draug took so long convoying an army in and he got frustrated and decided he would do it himself

That solo was President Eden's fault. He did nothing to stop it. Even joining the game was apparently too much trouble. Fuck you PE. I never want to be in a game with you.

@guak: That still seems like a shitty reason to me, especially since he clearly lined up that turn to convoy. I'm not even sure how necessary it was to get an army in there, but if it's gonna happen it should be England sending it in... like what was going to happen.

I wouldn't have read it as a stab like Draugnar did, but putting all the blame on Draugnar is just ridiculous and he deserves to be called out for it.

Thanks, PE. I'll admit I'm a gunboat noob (and to those who say the line couldn't be setup with fleets in the Baltic region, I beg to differ. If you can keep Russia from building a fleet in StP by taking it as I did a couple of times (both turn overs to him were voluntary, one early before he was a threat and one cause France pissed me off), a fleet can support hold StP indefinitely.

Did I make mistakes? Sure. I misread a few cues (I have actually asked Roka to be an advisor to me in a future game so I can learn some fo these cues) but some of them were so aggressive that, without communication of a linguistic nature, there was no telling exactly what was going on unless you were also a master gunboater. I'm obviously not.

The irony is, I saw weakness in the south cause I expected him to want to hold Italy and he saw weakness in the north. This would have been an easy solo stop with linguistic communication.

And if we had both talked about it after the game calmly and rationally (and I am as much to blame with the forum topic as he is with his in game global rant), we might have seen where it went tits-up and got a good laugh about it (maybe not, him being even more high strung than me, but maybe).

Yeah, as roka rightfully points out, you needed to get rid of the northern fleet, and unfortunately you missed a couple of opportunities to do so (notably one after y'all momentarily got back on the same page... want to say 1923, 24?), but I'm not really convinced it should have gotten that far.

It's ultimately not a big deal, I just bristle when I see someone who made an obvious mistake nonetheless opting to blow a gasket and place all the blame on other players for his loss. It's not good for player development. Always ask yourself "Where did I make a mistake?" and look hard at the boards to find them; sometimes you'll have played effectively a perfect game and still lost, but that wasn't the case here, and if it's not the case then you _definitely_ don't spend your postgame reflections going after others' mistakes. You're not going to improve your eyesight by picking at the speck or plank or what have you in your neighbor's, y'know?