The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FACTA) passed when Pelosi and Reid controlled Congress taxes American citizens no matter where on the globe they live. So the simple question for Americans citizens overseas becomes "is my United States passport worth the tax burden?" Obviously not!
The Democrats said it would generate $8.7 billion in revenue, but instead it looks like it might now generate any new revenue because it is leading to a capital flight out of American stocks and the cost of implementing FACTA exploded from the estimates of tens of millions to a billion.
235 Americans renounced their citizenship in 2008. 1,810 Americans gave up their passports in the last six months alone. The idiotic consequences of power hungry politicians continue to hurt the United States.

Also increased year-to-date over year-to-date? Or just from Q1 to Q2? Seriously, your approach to try and make a point reeks of trolling with a lack of supporting evidence.

Bend over and remove your head from your ass so you can breathe Draugnar.

Still need citations, links being best, but that is a *little* better. However 2008-2013 is 5 years so that's significantly less than 50% year to year.

Get your's out of your LibTard master's ass.

And remember fucktard, you cussed at me first, so now I can give you an ass fucking with a verbal baseball bat!

And i don't see where you have shown the cause to be the act, at most there is correlation demonstrated from your lack of evidence. And if Draug is grilling you on this it's a good indicator that you're wrong, because Draug isn't normally there defending Democrats and their tax hikes

I am drilling for more info. I defend anyone who is attacked without facts: liberal or conservative. When I initially did my first post, there was *zero* information there. Don't throw up a dump-ass percentage number without anything to compare it against. It's fucking lame and shows a *reactionary* mindset who won't let actual facts get in the way of their outrage.

1208 Americans renounced citizenship in the second quarter of 1997, so the number doing so has actually *decreased* in the second quarter of 2013. So there you go.

Ass is not a profanity. An ass is what Draugnar can't find with two hands behind his back. Also note that it is August 2013 and it is illogical to attempt "year to year" comparisons using an incomplete year, but logic is something Draugnar can't find any more effectively than his own ass. What liberal criticizes Reid and Pelosi raising taxes? I guess the one that Draugnar keeps in his ass and calls master but can't find.
I didn't realize you were attracted to me sexually. If you are young enough Major Mitchell is the one you should hook up with. What good would citations do you? You are too lazy to get off your ass and look up anything.

Do year-to-date comparisons then. Doesn't matter. Your "statistics" fall in what Mark twain like to call "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

Only 189 citizens gave up their citizenship in 2013 Q1, and 1,131 gave up their citizenship of 2013 Q2 so the increase is indeed 600% in Q2. So there you go.

Your denials define delusion.

US citizenship renunciations by year, 2008-235, 2009-1,485, 2010-1,485, 2011-1,781.

I am so glad you went there! Quarter over quarter comparisons are invalid. You must compare a quarter of one year to the equivalent quarter of the previous years. Ask any business owner. My company? Calendar Q4 is weakest, Q1 is strong, Q2 levels off, Q3 stays similar to Q2, maybe a small drop, then Q4 tanks because budgets are expended.

Calendar years have varying effects quarter to quarter on *many* things. In fact, in this case, knew jerk reactions to suddenly seeing their personal income tax bill cause people to say "fuck this!" and leave. They don't see those bills until April (Q2) so fewer knee jerks in Q1.

Now your 2008 to 2009 comparison is what shoul dbe looked at and it is what supports your point. 2010 matched 2009 and 2011 had about a 20% increase. But 08 to 09 had a massive 500%+ increase (600%+ of the previosu year is only a 500% increase).

Trolliday season is here ..... I think 45.2% of the year-on-year increase, discounted and adjusted for seasonal variations means that the negative coefficient leads to QE1 to QE2 net present gross national domestic product diamorphic equilibrium correlation that makes it statistically inconsequential.
That backs up my point regardless of detail or accuracy or transparency so I think I win, of course if you question me I'll seek to ridicule you and get all superior, so I win again, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to discuss the issue with you when I'm not interested in your point of view and you are obviously are all morons.
Why why why ??

A 600% surge in a quarter is "invalid." Unless you are selling Halloween costumes, Santa Claus suits, or something of the like you won't be in business of any kind long with that logic. Another concept in business is trends. The first two quarters of 2013 exceeded the entire years in 08, 09, and 10, and that constitutes a decided upward trend. The argument for that trend upward is FACTA and its imminent implementation.

The trend I can agree with. But your quarter over quarter in a year does not apply to anything with calendar implications and taxes have calendar implications as does business. Don't believe me, try getting a major contract for millions of dollars and 6 months or more worth of work in December, it doesn't happen. I would think Tom Nies, owner of Cincom Systems, Inc. - the oldest and largest privately owned software company in the world, would know something about it and, if they weren't confidential, I could produce last year's EoY report which shows a month by month breakdown of the last year in comparison to the previous 10 years.

But your statement of Q1 and Q2 exceeding 08,09, and 10 in their eintirety is false.

189+1131 = 1320 (Q1+Q2 2013 from your own numbers above)
235+1485+1485 = 3205 (08, 09, 10 combined)

1320 doesn't even exceed 2009, much less all three years combined.

Sure you could.

Not combined, but individually. The fact is that the six months of 2013 set a record pace, and the explosion since Q1 is due to the tax.
I wonder if the year total will exceed 3,000 for 2013? The unintended consequences of the tax could be a disaster.

How do we know taxation is the reason people are giving up their citizenship? I abhor the way the United States government expects expats to give it money, but I don't see where you've shown that that is the reason more people are renouncing citizenship.

@Emac - I would but it is confidential information. Look up Cincom on wkipedia or just google us. It is a privately owend company and therefore any information released to us is confidential and Mr. Mies isn't obligated to do that. He only does it because our bonuses are based on company profitability.

http://newsroom.cincom.com/media-resources/financial-information/

...explains all about how they are not obligated to release the info to the public, so you can see why I can't release it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincom_Systems#2000_to_present

Our entry in Wikipedia.

@Invictus - Expats still receive benefits from the government, albeit a reduced set. But they are still eligible for social security. They still have the protection of the US military. They still have access to the US Embassies around the world. These are all pretty much the same privileges people who live in the US receive. Sure, they don't get welfare, but then the majority of us who live here don't get welfare either. So why shouldn't someone who receives all the same benefits from the US government that I receive also pay off the same tax tables as I do. Now, if they are paying a higher percentage relative to their income (I don't know as I'm on a phone and it is hard to do that dual browser thing) then that is wrong.

How do we know anything that isn't an objective fact, by argument supported by evidence. The evidence is that in the last year of the George W. Bush administration 235 Americans renounced their citizenship. Since then the number increased 500% from the 2008 rate in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012. Coincidentally those are the first four years of the Obama administration and its unceasing rhetoric against wealth and high incomes and legislation raising taxes on wealth and high incomes. FACTA directly targets Americans living overseas and its impending implementation isn't coincidental to the significant increase in citizenship renounciations. If you look at the debates in the Congressional record you find these exact concerns raised in opposition to the bill. FACTA simply exacerbates the taxation burden on US citizens overseas. The United States is the only industrialized nation to tax the income of it citizens who live overseas during the entire tax year.

Again, I point out that the expats receive benefits from the US government and their affiliation with it. Why shouldn't they share in the tax burden?

You such a goddamn nudge, Dragnaur. There is no reason an American who lives in, say, Belgium, who is married to a Belgian and works for a Belgian company and has Belgian children and plans to live the rest of his life in Belgium ought to write an income tax check for Uncle Sam.

I also have a hard time believing that they still would get social security. I mean, who does the withholding? Access to embassies is such little money it's not even worth discussing. And as for military protection being a justification for them still paying taxes, then why don't we levy a tax on all the citizens of the dozens of countries who wholly rely on us for their self-defense? America's global tax man strategy is monstrously unjust. No other country does this for a reason: it's crazy.


As for Emac, that's just correlation. Maybe they just are anti-Obama generally and the tax burden wasn't the main reason. Maybe there's been some change at the State Department and it just happens to be an easier process now. Maybe other countries changed their citizenship laws forcing expat Americans to choose. I agree that FACTA is bad, obviously, but it's a little much to assume that that was the cause of the slightly less miniscule number of people renouncing citizenship lately.