I'm afraid I'm opening a can of worms here, but the observations are my own, and honestly put forward, and I ask posters to maintain respect and decency.

I've noticed that humans tend to make generalizations from insufficient data.

Well, that's certainly the strangest player name I've ever seen.

doesn't it suck that you have to explicitly say that your not "racist" when all you want to do is point out "cultural" differences? I think the term has lost it's meaning.

New Rules for using the term racist
1) Someone thinks that their race is superior to another or all others based on race alone
2) Someone thinks that another race is inferior to other races based on race alone

New Rules for NOT using the term racist:
1) If Someone criticizes a minority for their ideas and they're not a minority
2) If Someone points out cultureal differences
3) If Someone points out religious differences
4) If Someone points out socio-economic differences
5) If Someone thinks that illegal immigration is a bad thing and should be stopped
6) If Someone criticizes a minority for being racist (Rev. Wright, Louis Farrakhn, etc.)
7) If Someone acknowleges the possibility that someone else might just be where they are at because they are a minority.

There are more, I'm sure but that gets my point accross

I have to wonder if perhaps it's not that multi-accounters as a group have a poorer grasp on the english language (for whatever reason, either because it's a second language or because they are young and just write/speak poorly?) but that those who get caught most tend to be the ones with such distinct speech patterns, which helps to give them away. Someone with a better grasp of English might be able to better fool other players into thinking they are different people, since they wouldn't have quite so obvious cues in their speech patterns to give them away.

What is it that leads you to beleive that many of the multi-accounters are from Asian countries? I mostly ignore the multi-accounting threads (after reading a few when I first joined the community they got pretty repetitive and I mostly ignore them now), so is there something that gives these people away as being from Asian countries as opposed to somewhere else where english wouldn't' be their native language (and as opposed to those who just write poorly?).

@DeliciousWolf - i think that this would have been a really good thread if you had simply stated that...
some people think that the "concept of sticking to laws has never been particularly the underpinnings of society, (but rather 'relationships') and thus the concept of 'cheating', that is, breaking laws, is not seen as particularly immoral or wrong. In summary, laws are less important than relationships, and where possible to do so, laws may be circumvented for one's benefit."
I think then we could have avoided being sidetracked, and discussed whether or not relationships are more important than laws.

On this topic I would like to advance the opinion that they are. We created laws to protect ourselves and the people we love. I don't think that some of our laws would exist if it were not for the strength of our relationships. For example - if we did not love our children we would not create laws to protect them from harm.

I also think that when laws and relationships clash it is inevitably relationships that come out on top. For example - in the UK it is illegal for people to assist the suicide of another, however more and more couples are opting to travel abroad to help one partner kill themselves. When there were stricker laws on homosexuality, i do not think that many homosexuals thought "oh dear its against the law I'd better not love that guy up the road". When it comes to theft, no one would agree with it - but would we steal to feed our children?

In summary I think relationships are more important than laws. But then, what do i know? I'm mad!

well if you have ever been in the streets of most asian countries they dont take their driving laws very seriously, let alone actually consider them. I would rather be in a taxi in new york city for an hour with the craziest drive than in any taxi in any south asian country for 5 minutes.

When i was in the Philippines i almost peed my pants bc of the driving audacity that they have. For example i think my driver ran around 9 red lights and turned left from the right lane about 4-5 times, in the process he cut off numerous people and pedestrians.

Dr Oct; I agree, poor English skills do contribute to detecting Multis; I wonder how many multis are undetected?

As to the Asian Countries, other than the poor grammar things I've picked up on have been mostly the Usernames picked.

And thankyou, Philcore for your post. I agree, the term 'racist' is over-used, but people are sensitive around these types of conversations and for good, historical reasons.

I hear you, That's why I took the time to desensitize it for at least this thread. Today this thread, tomorow the entire forum, the next day the entire internet!!

Oh wait tomorow's saturday, sorry I'll be at the lake - we'll just settle for this thread then for now, and I'll change the world when I have more time to dedicate to it.

Philcore, my argument isn't about "Laws vs. Relationship - which is more important?"

Rather, my main point is "To what extent does Rule of Law influence a society/culture, and thus the willingness of players to multi ?"

Based upon my observations, what is considered 'cheating' is different in different societies. Where Rule of Law is well established what is considered 'cheating' might not be considered strictly so where Rule of Law isn't well established.

In many Asian countries, due to culture and political history (i.e. despotic repression) laws are frequently seen not as absolutes, but as tools of the powerful to restrict and oppress people, and where you can get around them the better, and this is usually done through developing good relationships.

A perfect example of this is in regards to bribes. In the 'West' we generally view bribes as corruption of the worst kind. However, in the 'East' (again I'm making overly broad generalizations to make a point) bribes are seen differently, rather as gifts to foster good and harmonious relationships so that necessary things can get done. Living in S. Korea there are simply certain situations where 'goodwill gifts' are necessary.

I think you meant to address that comment to someone else - I actually haven't provided any useful insight or commentary to the actual topic of your post - sorry about that, by the way ;-)

I tried, but really, I've got nothing on this one. I don't even understand what you guys are talking about,

"Further, it seems that many of these multi-accounters are Chinese, or Asian. Not saying exclusively, but it seems many."

Before I begin to consider your argument, this statement needs to be justified.

Stop QQing just cause you are asian Notoriety.

Stop trolling just cause you want to feel good about yourself effward.

Stop attacking me just cause you are asian too Jell-o, you can't hide it from me.

You're probably asian too. Stop being such a hypocrite.

Now who is trolling? You know I am not asian.

Why don't you stop making false accusations and arguing without any evidence?

I am OWENHUANG and I approve this message.

@DeliciousWolf: "I wonder how many multis are undetected? "

This reminds me of something I heard on CNN. They gave a stat something like: "10%(I'm not sure what the exact number they used was) of prisoners on death row are actually innocent."
How the heck do you come up with that? If you could prove they were innocent, what are they doing on death row?

Controversial thread is controversial.

Politically courageous move DW.
But is it actually true?
well we had smart jason who i think was from hongkong but we also had canute who was from australia (ethnicity unknown) and now we have emp Tapia and his lot. any others?
I think you might be on more solid ground to go for age as a deciding factor rather than culture.

I think the OP is making a hasty generalization. While traditionally, asians are Confucian in ideology, this is changing. I would only consider China and Vietnam to be Confucian. I would not consider Hong Kong to have particular emphasis on relationship as opposed to rule of law, especially with heavy Western presence.

That said, a value on relationship does not mean they are more likely to cheat. I could just as well argue that Western capitalist philosophy encourages strong competition that rewards successful exploiters. In fact, the top 10 highest recorded crime rates are all in Western nations.

I believe race and/or culture has less to do with multi accounting at phpDip than does individual personality.

My argument isn't about Race or Ethnicity, and I hope this thread doesn't descend into that (maybe too late!). My point is about Culture/Society, not Race. For instance, I could care less if Canute was Asian or not, he was Australian, a country with a long political history of Rule of Law. And thank you Chrispminis for pointing out Hong Kong, perfect example of an Asian country with well-established Rule of Law.

I'm inclined to agree with you Sean, that age is probably much more the deciding factor than culture, and I hope this is true. My post was just based on my (perhaps simplistic) observation that the multis I've seen tend to be from Asian countries and I was looking for some confirmation/debunking of that idea. I think Sean's posting is closest to the discussion I was looking for.

Chrisp, might I add Korea (north and south) to your list of Confucian societies.

By the way, I'm NOT saying that valuing relationships leads to cheating. In fact, I wish we Western societies did value relationships/family a little more, I believe it would greatly reduce the high levels of poverty and crime we see, as Chrisp points out.

Simply, my ideas relate to the influence the well-established Rule of Law has on a person's choice to multi or not.

In any case, I think Western nations are susceptible to valuing connections over justice as well, it's just not called "bribery" so we don't think it's as bad. Take lobbyists, for example. Also, colleges can sometimes care a lot about legacy (or whether one's parents donated a new science building, etc.), which is downright nepotism/bribery. In my honest opinion, George W. Bush was probably Yale-qualified.

probably *not*
My bad.

I am the Mayor of Dublin!

@philcore: he said this just to respond to the controversy thing; he doesn't actually believe it. that's why the disclaimer was there.

He didn't just post it to show an example of controversial, he says in the posts that this is his honest opinion concerning culture differences.

oh, he did? i assumed no one would do anything like that because of the nature of the last post.

sorry. but then apparently i'm missing something about the "not a racist" part. i think there's a correlation but it's wrong to assume that foreigners are doing it. then again, this game does inspire a bit of xenophobia, no?

No way! Canute was a multi?

And Tapia? Wow.

who cares where they're from? just fix the system so it's not possible anymore!

Haha, Thucydides, you seem to end up socializing with multi-accounters. Tell me who else becomes your friend, and I'll be sure to check them out. =)

That's a nice tangent lazysummer... and you're free to start a thread about productive ways to stop multi accounting without penalizing the vast majority of legitimate players.

> I have noticed that a large number of the multi-accounters found here use poor English grammar. Further, it seems that many of these multi-accounters are Chinese, or Asian. Not saying exclusively, but it seems many. If I'm incorrect, please correct this perception.

i guess recent examples of multiaccounting - EmperorTapia, canute & Blackheath Wanderer - support this claim?

You insult me!
Any person of any nationality and ethnicity will have the same chance of cheating, no matter what. You Americans say the Chinese abuse human rights, kill without reason, blah blah blah, but I'm sure that USA is doing the same in Iraq. See?

Haha, Thucydides, you seem to end up socializing with multi-accounters

By the way, Jesus said that it is the sick that need healing, not the fit.

i think Blackheath is from Britain.

Are you comparing me to Jesus? Cause... thanks. I think.

And the reason I end up with multis, lol, is that I play in lo-stake noob games, and a high percentage of noobs are multis. So I deal with them. And still beat them usually :p