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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 268 of 413
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ssorenn (0 D X)
18 Aug 15 UTC
Looking for more friends and enemies.
Come get some game on 25hour/30-100pt/wta/FP/Anon
25 replies
Open
PrincessJellyfish (186 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
Need one more player
Hello! We need one more player in The House of Black and White. Please join, if you're interested! http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=166112
Password: history
5 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
18 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
"What the Black Lives Matter campaign gets wrong" - the Economist gets it right
Is it my impression, or has it taken too long for the mainstream media to expose the Black Lives Matter movement in America for the nonsense that it is?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/08/race-and-criminal-justice
Espi (338 D)
18 Aug 15 UTC
Add in the statistics for mexican involvement compared to whites and blacks to this blog and you have yourself a decent argument. Your claim that Black Lives Matter is nonsense is another thing, while there might be better methods to achieve the results they want, people are drawn to them for a reason.
Thucydides (864 D (B))
18 Aug 15 UTC
(+4)
Nonsense? Lol go fuck yourself
Tolstoy (1958 D)
18 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
"of those who were black 85% were armed."

There are two problems with this statement. 1) police officers have a very loose definition of 'armed'. According to most police departments in America, having common and generally innocuous household items like pens, screwdrivers, and toy guns makes a police homicide victim 'armed' and therefore deserving of death. Second, this discounts the very common practice of planting guns or other weapons on the police homicide victim after they are killed. "85% were armed" is really just what the police claim, which the economist dutifuly repeats as fact without any kind of critical examination.
bo_sox48 (5013 D Mod (G))
18 Aug 15 UTC
Tolstoy, you're not allowed to dispute the police in a police state, don't you know that?
Ogion (4059 D)
18 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
It is hardly nonsense. Citing the Washington Post, rather than the Guardian tally is already one tip off that The Economist is going to throw a slant here. Even so, it concedes that the US justice system needs to be less racist, less violent and more effective. Since that's what BLM is aiming for, they're hardly wrong.

US police kill more people every day than UK police have killed in the last three years combined. Although drug use rates are comparable among blacks and whites, blacks are four times more likely to be arrested, and conviction rates are even more disporportionate. Black potential jurors are thrown off juries at 3 times the rate of white panelists. And on and on. There is absolutely no question that the justice system is profoundly and systemically racist. That The Economist cites the notion that soaring crime rates and drug use fueled an increase in incarceration rates ignores the fact that the "get tough on crime" approach appealed because in the white imagination it was black men who'd be imprisoned. And so they have.

Finally, BLM has gotten solid plans out of the three main Democratic candidates and meetings with them. That's a very solid record of effectiveness for such a recent movement. Clearly, no one on The Economist's editorial board has ever tried running a campaign or they'd be a lot more impressed.

So, the only people who have "pointed out" that BLM is "nonsense" are pretty much the racists and white supremacists who helped institute this foul system in the first place.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
18 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
This movement is complete rubbish. Let's take a look at their "demands", number ONE:

"We will seek justice for Brown’s family by petitioning for the immediate arrest of officer Darren Wilson and the dismissal of county prosecutor Robert McCullough. Groups that are part of the local Hands Up Don’t Shoot Coalition have already called for Wilson’s swift arrest, and some BLM riders also canvassed McCullough’s neighborhood as a way of raising the public’s awareness of the case."

Hmm.... let me see... in a 300 million country with what I also admit seems to be a significant issue between minorities and majorities / pluralities they took one specific case. What case would I pick?

Hmm....

1. Well, first of all, I'd pick a case where the element of racism was present beyond a shred of doubt. In other words, where it wasn't just a matter of a white officer shooting a black person, but a white officer shooting a black person *with very strong indications if not PROOF that the officer, at some level, had racist motives.* If you call your movement "black lives matter," then certainly you'd want the poster case to be a clearly racist assault.

2. I'd pick a case where the victim did not have a criminal record and certainly did not commit a crime that same day. There shouldn't be strong elements of provocation in the victim's behavior.

3. I'd pick a case with clear *facts.* Video, photographs, indisputable evidence that the victim was - in all imaginable ways - a victim.

Then, if I'd found my case, I'd...

4. ...be careful on what I'd demand. I'd formulate demands everybody could agree on. "An investigation of the shooting." "An investigation of the police department responsible for this area." Etc..

So... let's see what happened.

1. No evidence of the police officer being a racist that I know off.
2. The victim had committed a crime *EARLIER THAT DAY* (!!!!!!!!!!)
3. From the wikipedia page on this event "Witness reports differed as to what Brown was doing with his hands when he was shot, but no credible witness said that he had his hands up in surrender."

And let's see what BLM demands:

"...We will seek justice for Brown’s family by petitioning for the immediate arrest of officer Darren Wilson and the dismissal of county prosecutor Robert McCullough."

In other words, justice for Brown, mob rule for Darren Wilson and Robert McCullough.

It would all be hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly sad.
Brankl (332 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
I read the article which linked to a really good speech Obama made to the NAACP. I think Obama takes a reasonable approach to this contentious issue. As a black American who has moved beyond anger in an effort to solve the problem, his views are particularly relevant. Whatever you think of his policies, you should give this a read.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/07/14/remarks-president-naacp-conference
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
White Lives Matter too. more than black lives in fact
jmo1121109 (3817 D Mod)
19 Aug 15 UTC
(+8)
@James, I'm not sure if that's a joke of not. But comments like that joking or not really aren't acceptable on this site. Please avoid degrading statements about groups of people.

Thanks,
WebDip Admin
jmo1121109 (3817 D Mod)
19 Aug 15 UTC
To clarify, that statement, whether a joke or not, is in very bad taste about a terribly sensitive subject. It is unwelcoming to any black members in our community.
bo_sox48 (5013 D Mod (G))
19 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
And to anyone with any sort of regard for other human beings. ^
Ogion (4059 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
Can we just ban his racist ass?
Yoyoyozo (182 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
I'm still trying to figure out what part of that was supposed to be funny. As a fan of dark, offensive humor, I generally try to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to jokes but that was just brazen and tactless. Shame.
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
wow my apologies absolutely, and Yoyoyozo it is a play on words given the title of the thread.

Ogion, calm your rope
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
And I wasn't trying to justify it to be clear
fiedler (1293 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
Im sorry James, the community has spoken into the volcano you go. Let me help you.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
Terrible play of words and sentiment, Yanik

Anyways.
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
I feel like we've had a thousand threads leading up to replica arguments on the same ideas behind racism and police shootings, even the organization's flaws and I was reading everyone's comments and all the articles and getting bored at the repetition and senseless circles of arguments.

I should have been serious instead of my vulgar, or have muted the thread and left it alone
Ogion (4059 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
It is a terrible sentiment. Black people have endured centuries of beatings, torture, harrassment, violence, summary executions and terrorism in the US. What you stated is I guess is the de facto attitude in the US, which is why #blacklivesmatter even exists. Frankly, if you were to come in here flying the confederate battle flag or wearing a hood, I'd recommend banning, because it is high time that the racist fuckers among us be taken out behind the shed and given a good beating. I am sick to death of the stupid crap that the US has going on and the level of which so many white people condone it.

Makes some sense that you were just trying to be snarky, James, but it was incredibly tone deaf. I will calm it when we don't have incredibly racist institutions and it is socially acceptable to offer support for that. In the meantime, I'm going to leave no doubt just how reprehensible such attitudes are. I'm not going to be polite about it anymore, here or anywhere else.
phil_a_s (0 D X)
19 Aug 15 UTC
redhouse, since when is being a criminal and/or (allegedly) committing a crime that day a forfeiture of the right not to be lethally assaulted? Criminals have rights too. This sort of callous, racist (given that white people are charged with felonies a lot less) disregard appalls me.

Yes, the court case was muddled, yes, there were other examples the movement could have used, but that's exactly the thing, they have. It's a social movement, with as yet no clear leaders - certainly politicians are reacting to it on both sides, and civil rights groups support it, but there is no leader to it. So, it's not using one single example, and in as much as it has a single aim, it is to get cops to stop murdering black people so much.

I am amazed that people trust police forces that have clearly betrayed that trust by lying and use of excessive force, time and again. In the recent riots in Ferguson, the police used chemical weapons that they had quite obviously had prepared for this specific eventuality. They knew that there would be demonstrations. The only things they made sure of was that this time, they would tell people they would be gassed before gassing them. The police believes it is in a state of open war with the citizens, and act accordingly. That makes them an occupying army, not a police force.

Does the right of a person to live depend on the color of their skin? Doesn't that seem a bit absurd?
redhouse1938 (429 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
Well as the thread opener I would accept JY's apology to the extent that it's about ruining harmonious debate, although it would be good if JY asks the mods if the comment could be removed from the site. It should not be here and certainly not in my thread.

Time to move away from JY and other racist sentiments and have a rational discussion on BLM.

Who has something new? I thought Tolstoy's points were pretty good, also some other points I read. I'm firmly anti the BLM-movement. I'm firmly pro the BLM sentiment in the broadest sense: that western countries should always debate how to treat those that have less means of defending themselves from harm.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
@phil

"redhouse, since when is being a criminal and/or (allegedly) committing a crime that day a forfeiture of the right not to be lethally assaulted?"

It most certainly isn't. And what happened that day, should never have happened. And even if the robbery had already happened, then the (vaguely related) shooting shouldn't have happened.

But in this case, there is no proof that there was a "lethal assault" as I understand it. The shooting seemed part of a struggle. And again, the "racist element": I believe you if you say there is a strong element of racism in America's criminal justice system, it's just that in this particular case I don't see it. Which makes me thing this movement is very eye-for-an-eye. A modern day Martin-Luther-King-club it is certainly not.
phil_a_s (0 D X)
19 Aug 15 UTC
Well, okay, in that case, what alternative do you see to the BLM movement that would actually achieve something positive? Achieving it through political action, pressuring politicians is a thing they are already doing, but it has limited effect, because politicians have little means or will to control the police, particularly those that depend on their votes. Passive resistance is hard in this situation, because there is nothing the victims can do or refuse to do effectively. A sit-in protest in front of the police garage would be effective - at preventing the police from maintaining order, which is not a thing anyone wants. Active resistance is rioting, and it gets them a negative picture in the media. Doing nothing at all preserves the status quo.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
I'll answer that, but I feel I'm already too present and will let some other people talk.
Middelfart (1196 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
I think that sometimes you Americans would benefit from looking at communities outside your own country.

From my POV you really ought not to focus on race here. Your justice system is injustice in so many ways that it's hard to tell you were to start making it right.

For starters, there is the way your policemen arrest citizens, then there is how they interrogate arrested citizens, then there's your whole juridical system - I don't even wanna start on this - not to mention your how threat people who have been judged guilty.

As soon as a policeman thinks a person might be guilty he is treated inhumane.
semck83 (229 D (B))
19 Aug 15 UTC
I do think that the Brown case is a somewhat unfortunate poster case for the movement, but I think one should distinguish between having an unfortunate poster case and being a nonsense movement. Fortunately, the movement has been able to get attention despite the bad facts of that case, and to focus on other, more obvious cases of unjustified police brutality.

Part of me thinks it's a little bit unfortunate that this has happened in such a way as to occlude the fact that police brutality is a problem in general, and not at all just against black people; but it seems to be necessary to highlight what is a worse problem for that community, so overall I'm glad that it is getting all this focus. The biggest challenge, I think, will be to see if the results can be positive change and not just ineffective and inarticulate anger (which is not always aimed at the right targets).

There should not be a community in this country that feels they cannot trust police not to kill or abuse them. While there is, we must work to change that.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
@semck (and per my response to semck, I respond to phil)

"I think one should distinguish (...) nonsense movement."
-I disagree. I'm a busy man. No good poster, no good movement. Sorry.

"Fortunately, the movement (...) police brutality"
-They really haven't. The CNN cameras focused on obvious cases of unjustified police brutality. BLM is getting in the way shifting focus to cases where the justification of such brutality is a colossal question mark.

"There should not be a community (...) to change that."
I disagree. I'm a white person with nothing to fear and I sometimes (*gasp*) get stopped by a police officer when driving. My first response (*gasp*) is fear. Fear for having overlooked a sign. Fear for my name popping up in a computer for some bill I forgot to pay. Etc.

This is the healthy reflex when someone with the law and the gun on his side pulls you over or arrests you.

I say this with all due respect and this may be overly European or white of me to say, but the hostility one often sees in America toward law enforcement officers is much more shocking to me than what we've seen so far in terms of the reverse.


27 replies
NerfedFalcon (100 D)
14 Aug 15 UTC
New player looking for advice
As someone who's never played Diplomacy before, I don't really want to join a game that's already in progress, being unable to gauge its position. At the same time, if I start a game that I want to say is 'for noobs' then a bunch of people will join it and destroy everyone else. There also aren't any starting-up games which will accept me as a brand-new player. Which approach is better for getting started: picking up games in progress, or starting my own games?
11 replies
Open
keyser42soze (151 D)
17 Aug 15 UTC
Hoping for a love child from webDiplomacy and Backstabbr
I just started playing online for the first time since the Diplomacy Judge days, and have a couple games here and a couple games at Backstabbr. I love the features here, but the UI for Backstabbr is far nicer (in the sense that it's easier to tell what's happening on the board). Any chance the developers here would work on a cleaner UI inspired by Backstabbr? Do others agree that the webDiplomacy UI could be improved?
28 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D (G))
16 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
World of Warships
I'll be playing World of Warships for a while. If anyone's interested in joining me, feel free to add me.

If you don't know, WoWS is a very fun Free-to-Play game: http://worldofwarships.com/
83 replies
Open
kahudd2000 (157 D)
18 Aug 15 UTC
Where it went wrong
I thought I remember a proposed series called "Where it went wrong" or something like that.

Did no one have a game they wanted dissected? Because I wouldn't mind submitting some of my gunboat play to criticism.
3 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (1712 D)
19 Aug 15 UTC
Live game this Friday?
see inside!
8 replies
Open
Hamilton Brian (739 D (B))
19 Aug 15 UTC
Sources of Tension
An exploration of those positionings that test an alliance. Feel free to add your thoughts, views, observations, etc. If you shit though, clean up after yourself.
5 replies
Open
Ogion (4059 D)
14 Aug 15 UTC
Welcome back party!
Friends,

I've been away for the last six months, and I thought I'd throw myself a little welcome back bash.
30 replies
Open
ckroberts (3548 D)
05 Aug 15 UTC
The Mountain Game 4 rules discussion/sign up thread
The Mountain Game 4 will commence soon.
56 replies
Open
Rodgersd09 (100 D)
17 Aug 15 UTC
"A good games" was cancelled - Do any players know why?
Damn - I was enjoying it as well!
3 replies
Open
Constitutional Rights for Embryonic Americans?
In the GOP debate last Thursday, unsurprisingly, abortion was a point of discussion amongst candidates. Obviously they were all pro-life to some extent or another, but Mike Huckabee went so far as to say that abortion was already illegal, because unborn children have the rights to equal protection under the law and due process. Right from conception, they have constitutional rights, he argues.

Regardless of your position on abortion, is this a valid argument?
91 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (443 D)
12 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
Mafia
I'm getting sick of muting Mafia threads. Can someone launch a separate site for them or something?
44 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 D X)
14 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
Changes to site policy--
With this gunboat tourney going on, I think there should be a change to a site policy. ----see inside---
106 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
15 Aug 15 UTC
sex slavery in IS
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/sex-slavery-adopted-and-codified-by-islamic-state-1.2317309
11 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (3375 D (B))
12 Aug 15 UTC
(+4)
2015 Gunboat Tournament
See inside.
250 replies
Open
DeathLlama8 (524 D)
15 Aug 15 UTC
What do people use to adjudicate F2F games without a board?
Fairly self-explanatory, really. Backstabbr doesn't really work for me.
15 replies
Open
Eadan (454 D)
15 Aug 15 UTC
We need someone to step in as Egypt
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=164461#votebar
1 reply
Open
King Mischief (108 D)
15 Aug 15 UTC
world take over-4
come join world take over-4. I'm some what new to the game so, it could be easy $$$.
3 replies
Open
Stubie (1817 D)
14 Aug 15 UTC
Cutting Convoys
Is it possible to stop a supported convoy (where the fleet convoying is supported) with a supported attack of equal support, thus not dislodging the convoying fleet?
10 replies
Open
Lebosfc17 (20 D X)
14 Aug 15 UTC
To The Mods
Does anybody remember DC35?
17 replies
Open
Fluminator (496 D)
14 Aug 15 UTC
I need help with a research paper!
It's due tomorrow night and I have to do a 12-15 page paper on how the internet of things and the third industrial revolution will affect society and more importantly the work force and employment.

I'm up to around 10 pages and I have no idea what to write for the last 2.
And no, increasing the font size of each period isn't allowed.
41 replies
Open
4-8-15-16-23-42 (352 D)
14 Aug 15 UTC
Question- Help
See below.
16 replies
Open
general (100 D)
13 Aug 15 UTC
Quick live game
Join my quick live game: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=165983.

Haven't played in years and want to get back into it :)
1 reply
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
13 Aug 15 UTC
Messed up, two 13 year olds tired as adults
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7979942?cps=gravity_5540_1138476008340655834

So teenagers brains are different from adult brains; that is a reason why we don't let them drink or drive... The frontal lobe which controls will-power and executive function ( ie decision making ) continues developing until about 25.
32 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
11 Aug 15 UTC
Risk taking
http://youtu.be/vBX-KulgJ1o
Great video, but the first thing i think of is relationships, (and given that i was recently dumped, this is no surprise) Naturally you could also apply this to diplomacy; but the probabilities get a little messed up, and in Dip not taking a bet means taking a different course, which may also be risky.
14 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
10 Aug 15 UTC
Snowden Interview
Recent interview with German tv, apparently not shown in the US and not available on youtube?? m.liveleak.com/view?i=f93_1390833151

He makes some interesting points...
49 replies
Open
fulhamish (4134 D)
12 Aug 15 UTC
Climate change - another feedback loop
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150805140254.htm

Time to recalibrate those models..........................again
30 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (443 D)
13 Aug 15 UTC
(+4)
The death of the republic
http://diprepublic.net/?reqp=1&reqr=

Oh no. How sad.
9 replies
Open
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