Excuse me, I didn't call him part of the mainstream media...

I said that he had a book published in the mainstream, that is, by a mainstream publisher?

Unless he's publishing out of his basement, he uses a mainstream publisher, yes?

Hence what I said...

READING THE ACTUAL COMMENT!

--It's NOT just for those paying attention anymore (well, maybe, it is...)

And that's an insult to all the real, hard-working pseudo-intellectuals on this site...

I prefer the term "pointy-headed-ignoramus," it's just such a fun word to say, and sadly underused...

"I don't care if you respect or trust my experience. The point is, people who go around making experience claims aren't making arguments."

Experience isn't an argument? It's far from a perfect argument, sure, but experience definitely adds to the discourse when it's legitimate. Sure, especially on an anonymous forum it's easy to cook up bullshit "experience" that oh-so-conveniently denies reality. But I've asked more than once if that's what you're calling this here, and you've not given me an answer to that, so I don't know if that's what you're saying or not.

"President Eden, why are you so consumed with how an argument is made to please you and not about the justice of the argument itself?"

That's so egregiously misrepresented it's not worth the time to respond.

"It's seriously mind boggling how you project neutrality on these questions, when you're so often quick to pull the trigger about 'government tyranny' elsewhere."

No, it isn't. I'm rather sharply against government tyranny where it arises, and as I said earlier I don't like how Arizona has handled its immigration issues in general. But actually being able to analyze individual matters and consider whether or not a specific circumstance is or is not an example of this tyranny shouldn't be mind-boggling except to a hard-line ideologue who blatantly ignores reality so he can argue about his much more convenient version of it.

"Pantheon Books is not exactly a fringe publisher."

No, it isn't, you're right. Does that make Chomsky any more mainstream?

^In the context of my statement:

Yes, as my statement WAS charging that his books are charged by mainstream publishers...

And that's ALL I was saying.

If you want to still call Chomsky himself outside the mainstream--I'll be honest and say while I'm familiar with the name and some of his broader ideas, I can't pretend to know a great deal about Chomsky, I couldn't quote or cite his words or concepts or ideas like I might with Shakespeare or Nietzsche or Hitchens or any of my other Dead White Guys (Plus Virginia Woolf.)

So he might be out of the mainstream in that regard, I don't know, and I will freely admit to that (though a quick Wiki search alone shows how many honors he has and how influential in different fields he is, so I wonder a bit how someone who wins awards in academia and is a known influence in many fields of academia can't be considered a "mainstream" source in academia, but again, since I am not at all familiar with Chomsky well enough to quote or cite, and I myself would cry foul if some imposter tried to form an opinion on Nietzsche based solely off a quick Wiki search without actually reading the man first, so I'll leave it there and again freely admit my inexperience with the man.)

But AGAIN...JUST in the context of my statement...

YES--if his book is published by a mainstream publisher then the book is a mainstream book and not some underground work, as it were.

And that's ALL I meant by my statement, Eden.

The guy is well-read and well-cited in academia, yes. So is Karl Marx, but you wouldn't consider him in the mainstream of political thought - his critiques are employed, sure, but it's rather rare for people to identify out-and-out as "Marxists." Marx is still often discussed precisely *because* he's out of the mainstream, and criticizes the dominant paradigm.

Where Chomsky is in that regard, relative to Marx, I'm not qualified to say. But it's the same idea. He's famous for his criticisms of the current paradigm in American society, *especially* as regards American media.

Plenty of people criticize the mainstream media while getting airtime/published in it. Chomsky is no Ward Churchill or Angela Davis.

No one said he had to be. Chomsky came up because mapleleaf told obi to go read some of his work criticizing the mainstream media/press.

@Obi Chomsky's academic accolades stem from his work in linguistics(see Language acquisition device), in which he is considered a leading thinker these are treated separately from his political writings/critiques. Not to diminish the value of his political work which I have long admired. But they are not mainstream.

I completely agree with Eden in what should constitute a real education in this country. I don't no if defunding/deconstruction would get us there though. The changes in education have in large part been driven by a cultural shift in America. We have become lopsidedly materialistic. Unless that culture changes education is likely to continue down the same path. I can't tell you how many times when pursuing a Philosophy degree people asked me..."How are you going to make money with that?"

oops wrong thread...sorry.

Maple Dunce needs to ask himself, does he think Chomsky would agree with him on his racial hatred of Hispanophone immigrants, or does he think Chomsky would rather agree with "Obi-Twerp".

"oops wrong thread...sorry."

Both posts are in the wrong thread, since the other one was irrelevant as well.

obi-goof mewled...."But AGAIN...JUST in the context of my statement."
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Your statement was/is inane.

Of COURSE you're not familiar with Chomsky. You're a moron.

Stop the presses!