Alright, so this is a scenario that I am seeing A LOT in my games. It's the middle of the game. There are three players who have any decent amount of SC's. There is one player clearly stronger than the other two, and the other two are of relatively equal strength. Instead of teaming up against the stronger player, the one of the weaker ones goes all out on the other, letting the strong player get the solo and himself the strong second. Is forcing the draw a dead practice anymore? I have benefited from this in some of my games and I have been the player who was stabbed, but I just don't understand why it happens.

I was writing it...hold your horses

and no, I am not posting too frequently

That's why it's recommended that you write your post so all you have to do is copy paste. or your get smart aleks like me. :P

Drawing isn't a dead practice to my eyes. It tends to happen more in some of the higher quality games.

Yeah, but it just mystifies me. It's not like they have a vendetta for the other player, because usually they were allies beforehand. Eh, it just bothers me, especially since I don't really have the points to join high-pot, high-quality games

Probably something with how they get tricked by the bigger player into attacking?

Could also be related to the fact that all they think is that the big power is big and undefeatable so they might as well try for second.

i think they could be just happy simply to survive and come second. Helping someone else win is a 'victory' - kind of. Sad but true.

I suppose. And once a player is my ally, I think my mistake is communication just drops off unless we need to discuss tactics. And I'm not exactly a smooth talker lol

Yeah, when 2 of the first few games in your profile are called World Noobs and Beginners Game, I think you may see more of it than you should. Just capitalize on that, get some points and join up the higher pot games where it doesn't happen as often.

haha yeah, that's a good point. I will try to seek out more experienced players for games.

You may want to try more WTA games, which punish that sort of behavior. Personally, I don't see Diplomacy as a zero-sum game and, as such, prefer the PPSC system, but WTA does remedy this problem.

If you play WTA and not PPSC, this won't be an issue. PPSC encourages bad behavior.

Thanks guys. I will look for more WTA games in the future

My limited experience is that WTA encourages drawing when you are at the three surving player stage (out of fear of losing?). I am starting to prefer the points games for this reason

Alan Calhammer once said that the perfectly played game would always end in a draw. WTA is the way the game was meant to be played and draws, like stalemates, are the proper result for evenly matched players.

"You may want to try more WTA games, which punish that sort of behavior. Personally, I don't see Diplomacy as a zero-sum game and, as such, prefer the PPSC system, but WTA does remedy this problem."

PPSC is zero-sum.

"Alan Calhammer once said that the perfectly played game would always end in a draw. WTA is the way the game was meant to be played and draws, like stalemates, are the proper result for evenly matched players."

Depends on the attitude of the players. You could have 4 guys all trying their damnedest to get a win. Anlari I know is a player who will almost only draw when either others are determined to make it happen, eliminating him if necessary, or there are 3 players constantly switching the lead as two team up against the bigger.

@TGM: No it isn't? Since it's possible to get points without winning, it is not zero sum...

@youradhere.
Thats not what zero-sum means. Most games on webDip are zero sum, because the amount put into the pot is the amount taken out at the end.

My main problem comes from games like these gameID=43855 Granted, I was Turkey, but that type of solo shouldn't happen.

Well fuck me in the nose that's embarrassing. I meant that actual diplomacy is not a win/lose process.

England was turrible in that one. I swear it's almost like divine mandate that if an eastern power not named Russia owns St. Petersburg a western power must take it back.

I agree with the sense that youradhere is trying to convey. In WTA, anything less than a win...is a loss. In PPSC, not only does increasing your SC's beyond your original investment feel a bit like a win, but a 17 17 draw (or even an 18 16) feels pretty good, defeating the other 5 players. And despite what The Alan said.... I can't help but believe that most FTF players grew up in the same environment that I did - on a Saturday night, we played for 5-6 hours, and generally reached the point where a team of two players appeared dominant...and were acknowledged as "winning". We didn't have 10 -15 hours to resolve a single winner. If this is true, the model of "one player winning" is not reflective of the diplomacy games that we grew up with, as teenagers.

@president Eden: Join http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=20