I disagree...sometimes rudeness is a very important tactic in Diplomacy. Make someone angry and you might be able to take advantage of them.

On the other hand, players should not act that way most of the time. Words should be used carefully, not just thrown about. And if nothing else, it will be detrimental to their gameplay.

Without knowing the context of that phrase pappy, I'd have to refrain from judgement on it.

I have to admit, I laughed when I read that.
With all due respect, I think you will get over it.

As long as he's not cursing I dont think its unappropriate.

The guy is hiimme333html

His problem is that I am talking to him about certain game stuff, and says crap like this and "Stop annoying me" If I was talking non game stuff, fine, but I have a right to send legitimate press about the game to any player. It's not like he is being rude as a tactic, he is just trying to get me to stop sending LEGITIMATE press, and that is ridiculous and plus the way it's being gone about is a joke, and quite insulting.

I wasn't even trying to form an alliance, just point some mutually beneficial things to this guy. And he comes out all rude and stuff. Ridiculous, and I bet F2F this guy doesn't have the guts to say the same crap because he knows somebody would knock him out.

Well I agree its stupid, but dont get worked up about it. Its his loss if he acts like an idiot.

i'll stop saying stuff like that if you stop spamming me and telling me to attack my allies.

People please. Kestas has already spoken on this issue:
If someone is rude, you decide what you do. There is no rule against it.

Personally, rudeness will never work with me, but that doesn't mean it is against the rules.

BUUUUURRRRRRNNNNN


sorry

I was talking about hiimme's comment btw

"i'll stop saying stuff like that if you stop spamming me and telling me to attack my allies." I'm not spamming you, just giving you information. This is diplomacy after all. If you don't want press, go play Risk and roll dice.

The point is, you should say stuff you are willing to say face to face. Consider these comments from hiimme would get him beat up in a real game of diplomacy (because nobody would ever DARE say such things in real life), they shouldn't be uttered here.

And if there are no rules, I can say ANYTHING I want to anyone in the game, as long as I don't swear. So I can say "I'm gonna kill your parents if you don't listen to me: Go and take such and such supply center. It's wide open." Come on now!

Well, if his goal was to get you flustered, he succeeded.

I think the beauty of diplomacy is that there are SO many ways to play. He is just as much within the rules as you are.

Regardless of the diplomatic merits of being rude, he has a right to do what he wants.

"okay, will you shut up now?"... "Consider these comments from hiimme would get him beat up in a real game of diplomacy" Do you really have that short a temper? "nobody would ever DARE say such things in real life" ... I most likely wouldn't say this, but I most definitely wouldn't put the phrase beyond the realm of possibility. I see nothing "wrong" (although obviously not tactful) in what he said.

"I see nothing "wrong" (although obviously not tactful) in what he said."

And what if I said this:"I'm gonna kill your parents if you don't listen to me: Go and take such and such supply center. It's wide open."

Anything wrong there?

I dont think anyone would take that threat seriously

But is it appropriate for diplomacy? yes or no?

Well to threaten to kill someones parents is never 'appropriate'

Why not? It's not swearing, and people just said anything but swearing is okay in diplomacy.

Perhaps now you see my point that there are limits to what you can do in diplomacy.

you're saying that would be okay but you're opposed to "shut up"?

I'm making a point, sorry you don't get it.

The point is there MUST be limits, not just "no swearing."

And I think the limit is (Should be) if you wouldn't say it face to face, don't say it here.

Who ever told another player to shut up face to face? I've never seen it. People would get beat up for it and other such rude comments.

hmm, why don't we just ignore each other and no one would be upset? that would work, but no, press is always important no matter what and if i don't want to be annoyed and spammed by you i should just go play risk. well, are you going to make me leave? do i have to read all of your messages?

Ok. well when someone threatens to kill your family then you might be able to start complaining, until then just shut up

I'm not being annoying or spamming buddy. Sorry you see it that way.

That was a joke.

Although the game does revolve around the concept of negotiations and 'diplomacy'! it will always come down to what happens on the board. If somebodys press offends you or you get ignored by somebody then get them to understand or reply to you by communicating via a show of force in the game.

Example: I am England and france and germany are both ignoring me, and france has told me to get lost. i summerise that they are allied so move Fleet London to English channel. This sends a clear message that i am not to be ignored and sure enough Germany sends a matey message saying how he never really liked France anyway. Solved.

E

i'm the italian player and hiimme333html is turkey. both of us are allied with austria. in the beggining pappy97 (germany) apparantly sent everyone a really stupid message, which i would also consider spam. and hiimme told me that he was getting a lot of annoying messages telling him to stab our ally, austria. austria also got a whole set of stupid messages and believed hiimme that he was getting spam telling him to stab him (austria) and would let hiimme take serbia. but now he (hiimme) is getting stupid messages to go further and take budapest. so i see two possible situations:

1. pappy is trying to be stupid and waste everyone's time,
or
2. pappy started this thread just to continue arguing with hiimme and getting him to take budapest.

2 is more likely than 1, so apparantly this whole disscussion is over one supply center. which wastes our time anyway. pointless.

LOL, OUCH.


(Oh, and i can back his argument. What he said is true.)

Can I humbly suggest that while there are "no rules" in the game, uttering threats is against a larger set of rules called the law (I suspect it is against the law of all the countries represented at this site). Swearing is not against the law in most places.

In terms of press - developers of this site, could there be a way to close diplomatic channels?

I never sent "Everyone" any message, so no spamming. There is no such thing as annoying messages in diplomacy, as confirmed here, unless we are talking about swearing or threats to one's family. It wasn't spam nor annoying.

we all say it's annoying, and yet you still say that it wasn't. how do you know it's not annoying, anyway?

"Can I humbly suggest that while there are "no rules" in the game, uttering threats is against a larger set of rules called the law (I suspect it is against the law of all the countries represented at this site). Swearing is not against the law in most places.
"
If that is the case, it should go one step further and be a rule that if you wouldn't dare say it to a face to face player, you shouldn't say it here.

I contend that people are much more rude and condescending because of the anonymity of internet, and in doing so, that takes away from the game of Diplomacy.

CAN I SUGGEST SOMETHING ELSE? JUST LIKE DPJUDGE, YOU SHOULDN'T KNOW THE USER NAME OF THE PEOPLE YOU ARE PLAYING AGAINST. That way you are not more likely to create a triple alliance with your regular PHPdiplomacy buddies. That never happens on DPjudge.

I disagree, in face to face you get to know who you are playing with and can tell a lot about them from the off. In this the only thing you have to go on when dealing with other players is the identity that ther forge for themselves. If you look at this as a role-playing experience then you would know something about who was ruling the country you were dealing with in advance.
I for one would be horrified at the thought of losing my identity (and therefore Mastermind status) just so some people feel that they won't be conspired against.

So basically what i'm saying is that it might seem easy for you (pappy97) to suggest these sweeping reforms, but when you have built up some experience and victories, you may not be so eager for players not to be recognised.

I agree with Locke, loosing the identities of your opponents is only shooting yourself in the foot

Ok, personally, if someone is rude to me, they're just asking to be destroyed and conspired against. Honestly, in Diplomacy, any sort of press is legitimate, of course, some types of press will work better than others... if you want friends...

So you are annoyed that they are being rude to you, but from what I hear, they are also quite annoyed with you, for your "spammy" messages. I don't know what they expect, I would welcome such "spam" because it means an active player, and it's not as if you are FORCED to read it. Diplomacy is about communication, expect to get it, expect to get a lot of it, and expect some of it to be offensive.

Also, Diplomacy players do have the right to ignore other players, they don't HAVE to listen to you, if they tell you to shut up, you don't HAVE to shut up, but they don't have to read your messages. If they have really said shut up, you should probably talk to other people on the board, even if they are three players, there are three other players and yourself to take them on.

Things don't always work out, but if you get humiliated and shocked, they have accomplished what they set out to do. That is, to irrationalize you.

Oh, and for their little situation, I really don't see how Turkey, Austria, AND Italy hope to form a workable alliance... It's logistically impossible for Turkey to win any game without attacking Austria, assuming that Austria doesn't just pen up in his own home centres.

well, anoying is toplay together inmost of your games and always be allies.
Create a passworded game and play alone. You will have no "spam" and the victory will be yours.
You play against humans. Everyone has his/her character and its not on our hands to change it.

welcome to the internet? I mean come on, he didn't even tell you to shut up, he asked you. While not very polite, don't let it get under your skin. The internet is not real life, and it never will be. You do have the right to send as many messages as you want. He also has the right to tell you to stop, even if you consider it impolite or rude.

There is an ENORMOUS difference between ASKING (or telling) you to shut up, and threatening to kill someones parents. Threatening physical harm or violence, even over the internet, can, in most jurisdictions, be prosecuted. If someone tells you to shut up in a private communication between another party and you, it's not likely gonna stick. Unless you happen to be a despot. And that other party lives in your country. In that case, fair game.

It's not a big deal, shrug it off, and move on.

I agree (with asa12). It's the internet. It's not a formal place. In fact it's quite the opposite. It's actually pretty rough. I would never let my child visit websites that are two way (like a forum or a game with communication) until I knew they were old enough to handle it. It's unlike any other form of communication humans created.

You should not expect that formalities of face to face communication would apply on the Internet. Just as they do not apply to mailing correspondence. Even the (few) formalities of email don't fit well with a forum or chat service over the internet.

Also, you should not expect that what would be considered an aberration in your culture is not the norm in another. We're dealing with a lot different people here from a lot of different countries/cultures. The common language here is English (for communication), but that does not prevent people from communicating in Italian, French, German, Mandarin, or any other language, and it certainly doesn't mean that the rules of etiquette should default to English. Nor to Italian, French, German, or Chinese.

We also have a pretty large age group here, ranging from people who are in their lower teens to their sixties (maybe older, my 70 year old Grandfather is on the internet almost as much as I am, so it certainly wouldn't surprise me.) On internet forums and usergroups, people generally speak as if they're talking on an equal level. Respect is not always given by default to people who are older. This is mostly due to the fact that it's impossible to tell how old someone is. Realize that if a 14 year old messages you, he'll probably message you as if you're one of his (or her) peers. Things they may say might (and oftentimes have...) come off as very immature, but its hardly something to get worked up about. They need to grow up, and eventually they'll learn that people will respond to them better if their messages are respectful. (for certain members, that's a little advice on how to use the diplomacy aspect of the game in your favor.)

Ultimately, some members of this community will have to put up with things that irritate them. There really isn't recourse for rude diplomatic messages besides not allying with the person (which you can always remember if you get into a game with the player in the future.) Certain things, like cursing or threats of physical harm (or unlawful electronic harm?) should not be tolerated. Kestas has spoken about stuff like that before, and if it becomes too much of a workload, he could always get some people he trusts to help him moderate the forums (or games).

Oh, well god damnit, i suppose i can't tell you all that this entire thread was dumb and for you all to shut up? sheet guys, fire ze mizzles.

Very well put, Alfa.
I just want to add to everything you say that actually there are no limits to what can be said during a diplomacy game. Of course, if the players normally use cursing and/or slang in their life, then the game will have curses and slang. And in the internet, as Alfa and asa12 explained, there are too many people who curse and use slang, so it would be quircky that the same thing wouldn't happen here.

I think the issue of the "appropriateness" of contacts between players is never important when 7 people join to play diplomacy; if they're all young, they'll use their language; if they're all old, the same thing will happen. I can only see moderation happening when different groups get together to play - like it happens here. Admit it, if you're England and your father is Russia, you can deny him Norway, attack him in St. Petersburg, or even ally with him to destroy Germany and THEN stab him and attack him in St. Petersburg. You'll only curse or get cursed at if you usually relate to your father in those terms.
Sorry schwerpunkt, I had to say it.

"Contempt and insults engender hatred against those who indulge in them. without being of any advantage to them." - Niccoló Machiavelli, The Discourses. 1517.

to Antonius Rex

oh yeah, whole family...lol...i suppose it's hard to imagine for most people, but we are all sarcastic and swear in a casual almost friendly manner.