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StackelbergFollower (1463 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
Jun 2015 GR Challenge - Game 1 EOGs
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=163864
Result: Two-way draw between England and Turkey (my first two-way draw!)

This was honestly a pretty cut-and-dry game for me. I can almost never say, but aside from small details, I wasn’t really once surprised by anything that happened in this game. I had fun, though, mostly because Austria-Turkey and England-Turkey are both fun alliances. EOG below.
StackelbergFollower (1463 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
Pre-game:
I draw Turkey, and I’m just coming off another game where I played Turkey, allied with Austria, and had it work splendidly for me, so my first instinct is to try it again because it’s often unexpected and my theory is that folks get nervous as Austria and will accept offers of an alliance when they come. But, to keep my options open, I talk to Russia about a juggernaut, too.

The long and short of is this: talks with Austria go fairly well, and they go pretty well with England, too. Germany and France want to attack England, and Austria is happy to steer Italy in that direction. I have a decent conversation with Italy, too, and he seems to be happy not to fight me or go lepanto as long as I don’t build F Smy.

My negotiations with Russia are pretty disastrous, though. I try to sell Russia on the RT opening I did in one of the ODC games recently (where I played Russia) and the main effect of that proposal is that Russia (Valis) figures out who I am right away. He also hates the opening, but the alternative he proposes has a lot of my units doing nothing in S01 to achieve the slingshot, so I decide to just open against Russia and deal with the consequences later. Russia is opening north at Austria’s request and I lie to Russia about wanting a DMZ in the Black SEa.

Spring 1901:

I’ve opened to the black sea and Armenia, and I get a lot of angry press from Russia. I mostly send him BS in reply, although I do explain I decided to attack him because I hated all his proposals from before moves went through. Meanwhile, Austria and I are discussing potential moves to keep Russia from getting any builds in 1901, and we settle on a plan.

In the west, Germany and England open against France, but I believe Germany told France there would be a Sealion, so England doesn’t get the channel. Pretty good start for Germany, shame it falls apart so soon after this.

Fall 1901:
This is the turn where I start to get a little incredulous about what’s happening around me. The A/T alliance is going to become very obvious as Austria supports Bul-Rum while I support Arm-Sev, continuing our plan to keep Russia from building this year.

Germany and Italy are both happy discussing plans to attack France with me, and this is the main source of my incredulity. It seems to me they really should be worried about my alliance with Austria, but I guess they figure we’ll come to blows sooner or later. Fair enough, because I’m in relatively constant conversation at this point with England and Germany about whether or not I can really trust Austria not to attack me.

Also, in a big twist, Norway is left neutral because England goes to belgium! England was in a tough spot to get a build after having one of his fleet moves get bounced, but I had expected Russia to take Norway since he had to be reasonably sure England wouldn’t.

But he doesn’t, and the year ends with Russia down to 3, Austria and I both on 5 (but Bulgaria is still neutral by design)

I build a fleet and an army, honouring my agreement with Italy not to build a fleet in Smyrna. Italy had moved to Tyrr Sea in the spring, so I know a lepanto is not coming anyway.

1902:

This year is primarily about Austria and I continuing to kill Russia, England and Germany’s tenuous alliance coming apart, and Italy attacking France.

Austria and I had been exchanging a lot of messages last year, but starting this year, he becomes much less available. We basically exchange just 2-3 messages each turn for the rest of the game, almost only discussing moves. And our position is almost always so good that it’s not really that hard to find winning moves, so these are easy conversations. But Austria’s inattentiveness becomes a factor later.

In the fall, England stabs Germany and it’s...something. There is a proposal to give England Sweden and Germany Belgium, and England just reneges on his part of the deal, and tries to take Holland to boot (although the second part doesn’t work since Germany supports Hol-Bel). Just two turns early, Germany had told me he was pretty sure England would stab him eventually, and I had told him he was probably right. England had also told me he was going to stab Germany in 1903/1904, so I wasn’t giving bad advice.

At the end of the year, Russia is closer to death, Italy and Germany’s attack on France has basically gone nowhere, and England has kind of weakly stabbed Germany. It doesn’t much matter, though, because Austria and I are planning to hit Germany and Italy at the same time next year. England and I keep talking about to kill Russia, although this thing about killing Russia becomes a sticking point between us later. There are also some more funny hints about how no one thinks my alliance with Austria can list, from England and Italy in press. I’m sort of planning to run with the alliance until I can’t.

1903:

Spring 1903 is a great turn. Austria moves to Silesia, Bohemia, Italy moves Ven-Tyr and...Austria moves Tri-Ven! After this happens, I get a message from Italy, who basically points out that my neighbour has just exposed every single one of his SCs to me and I could just start taking them all. A bit self-interested since Italy dies if I don’t do that.

Germany sends me basically the same message. England had a slight advantage over him, but Austria attacking him means he’s done. Unfortunately for Italy and Germany, I don’t see that stabbing Austria now gives me a decent chance to solo, and this attack is pretty much everything I had wanted. There’s some confusion from the others, too, since I move Rum-Gal and for a split second, it seems like italy thinks I might already be stabbing Austria. I’m not, though.

Italy uses his dying breaths to cripple all the other minor powers. Instead of defending against our attack, he puts all his unit to use taking SCs from France and sneaking into Munich while Germany can’t defend against him because of England. At the same time, Austria and I take Warsaw and Moscow.

1904:

This year brings the death of Germany, as Austria takes Munich and Berlin (with my help in the latter case), but for me, it’s mainly about Russia. In the spring, Russia, who is now down to two centers, curiously leaves Sweden and moves his fleet to GoB, and just keeps his army in StP. Meanwhile, England is too encumbered to cover Norway so I’m thinking Russia has hatched a devious scheme to get a build.

England basically spills the beans to me that, yes, he’s going to let Russia get into Norway with his army, and it’s up to me and Russia whether or GoB and Mos bounce in StP (allowing Russia to build), both hold (allowing Russia to build) or one of us holds but the other moves (keeping Russia from building). I don’t want Russia to have a build or England to have a pawn, so I make a deal with Russia to bounce in StP with no intention of actually moving there. At this point, I’ve lied to Russia all game.

England knows what my plan is, and so does Austria, and it goes as expected. Russia orders GoB-StP and can’t build. Somewhere around this time, I propose a carebear deal to Austria, which obviously I end up breaking later on myself, but I was at a pretty big disadvantage when I proposed it.

1905-1906:

I know this game goes until 1912, but it honestly more or less ends here for me. Russia and England have some huge blowout that I still don’t understand, even though they hash it out in global after the draw. Russia starts making me offers, and at the end of 1905 I’ve got armies in StP and Finland. Norway is impossible, though, and the way I’m set up in the Balkans, I’m a million miles away from everything I own if Austria stabs me. So I’m pretty nervous about what Russia is suggesting I do.

So I give up on Norway, tell Russia there’s no deal, and pull back a little. Russia mutes me and England, and by the end of 1906 Italy and Russia are eliminated. I also resume two-way draw talks with England, since it seems like it’s impossible to solo.

1907-1910:

I stab Austria in the spring, without telling England first, and the next four years I’m just slowly but surely taking all his centers and setting up the stalemate. Austria basically has Iberia, Marseilles, Germany’s home centers, parts of Italy, and his home centers at the start. I figure I can very safely get everything without risking much since England is pretty far behind me in SC count, and I can make it safe for England to eliminate Austria on the line later.

There really isn’t a lot of effort going into these years for me. England and Austria actually have to cooperate, and England never solidly commits to the two-way since a part of their talks are setting up a line so that Austria feels secure about not being stabbed. They probably have interesting things to say about this period.

1911:

I’m only including this year to make fun of basva. It is very possible for the last 6 or 7 of Austria’s centers to fall this year, without there being (much) chance of me taking the solo. I send him some moves that wouldn’t really leave the door open, and consider going for it by throwing all my units towards Marseilles, but England makes it pretty clear that he won’t be taking everything off Austria.

So Austria is left with one center (Paris) and one unit (Tyrolia) after this turn.

1912:

We ready up to turns and draw after Austria is eliminated. For laughs, Austria and I try Sil-Mun in the fall, but it basically has no chance of succeeding since England has a stalemate.

Anyway, fun game, but pretty cut and dry for me for most of it. The early phase, from 1902-1904, was basically just me and Austria making good moves that were easy to agree to tactically, and the endgame was basically just me taking Austrian centers as fast as I could without risking England getting past the stalemate line. All the exciting diplomacy for me was pretty much confined to 1901-1902 and 1904-1905.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
Thanks for the detailed EOG! It was indeed a pretty short game in actuality. Having like a month long pause or something close to that didn't help either. I don't have much to say. A/T were basically the same person until I was dead, and nothing I could say would change that, not that I didn't try. Austria at one point straight up admitted that his actions were not good for him but he was just gonna hope he could be essential on the line. I went to both England and Turkey to be a pawn and both eventually refused me. Some you win, some you lose. With the exception of England, everyone was great and global was a fun time.

I don't think you necessarily said or feel so, but don't feel bad I knew who you were instantly, that happens to a lot of people at high levels, whether it's referencing certain events, talking a certain way, etc. Doesn't change any play.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
I just went over my press with you in A01, it wasn't angry at all =( </3

"This isn't a key lepanto, not how this works. I'm not going to be your ally if you do whatever you want, waste my time reading hundreds of words, and just expect me to take it lying down.

I'm only willing to talk if you're willing to not waste my time"

is by far the most aggressive thing I said. But I'm known to have different perspectives than others so I'm willing to be at fault if that's what happened.
Maybe angry is the wrong word, but certainly accusing me of wasting your time isn't, like, friendly. Also, it was true. I *was* wasting your time. The fact that you realized it made me want to stop trying. If I had thought I was fooling you, counterintuitively, I might have kept fishing for something. But my mind was more or less made up when Austria agreed to support Bul-Rum anyway, so I don't know what you could have done. Aside from taking Norway. You should have taken Norway.

And yeah, I'm sure it wasn't a factor that you ID'd me. Folks figure things out pretty quickly in semi-anon games anyway. Maybe in my future EOGs I will also note when the game stopped being even remotely semi-anon for me (in this game, it was F01).
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
I accept that you feared me, that I let slip too much of my intelligence, and that I was understandably upset at you continually and exclusively lying to and attack me.

Alright good EOG everyone that's a wrap.
Awesome EOG, Stack! I'll comment and post my own tomorrow morning.Valis will play the lead role, so you've got a lot to look forward to ;)
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
bump for Stack to find the thread
So Pete U asked in global why everyone attacked France in 1901. I'm doing this from memory, and I'd welcome basva, rdrivera, and dyager_nh adding some commentary. But for my part, Austria and I both asked Italy to go west, mainly because we (or I) wanted the alliance, and I just wanted to attack Russia without having to worry about a lepanto. The attack on France was also a very nice thing for me because I was hoping to have an easy time getting into Spain or Marseilles one day, but of course that didn't happen. I never once had a great opportunity to take a stab at Iberia.

I encouraged Germany to attack France and before S01 went through, rdrivera and I were already exchanging press about how it was clear the losers from the first set of moves would be Russia and France. I forget whether or not Germany knew Austria was going to get Russia to open north or not, and it looks like basva (as England) had independent reasons for wanting the attack on France. I think Germany largely got caught on momentum; he knew I was attacking Russia and Italy and England were attacking France. And Germany seemed confident in his press to me about his ability to work with Italy (though not England, and rightfully so it turned out).
Pete U (293 D)
11 Sep 15 UTC
France EOG (short)

I quite like playing France, normally…

So, S01 – agreed DMZ with Italy, Germany AND England. Germany wants a Sealion, and I go with ‘Happy to work together, but not launching a full scale assault in S01’. Lookignback at the press I can’t recall why I changed my fleet move to the Channel, but I’m glad I did, as everyone else violates agreed DMZ. Both Italy and Germany specifically agreed the DMZ (Bur & Pie respectively).

The rest of the game can be summarised as Italy ignoring the A/T until the last minute (I have no idea why he kept the assault on me going while his home centres got hovered up) and England being a good working partner until he decided he could cut Russia then me out of the draw (at which point Turkey should have got the solo)
Yes, Valis, you told me that was coming, but I’ve never been a solo thrower, so that cost me any chance of a survive or a draw. Hey ho

Was a good game overall – I’d play with any of you again

Pete U (293 D)
11 Sep 15 UTC
The frustrating thing for me is that Italy & Germany confirmed the DMZs they broke in turn 1. Italy never even tried to engage in a discussion, even while the A/T grew. I'm really pleased I outlasted them both :P
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
Pete, you were in a tough position, maybe more tough than mine because it wasn't such an obvious defeat as on my side of the board. While you didn't do what I would have done, that doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. Everyone plays for different reasons =) Always happy to play with you again.
Pete U (293 D)
11 Sep 15 UTC
No probs Valis - one day we'll play a game together and both be there at the end, bestriding Europe like colussuses (colussi?)
Bit of bad luck I'd say. Italy was convinced to go west really quickly by Austria and I, though I'm less clear on what Germany's motives were.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Sep 15 UTC
I used to be able to say that Pete won the non-anon games and I won the anon games but now we've both lost an anon game and a non-anon game together :/
Pete U and I have almost always made it to the draw together, I'm pretty sure. I think this might be the first game we've both been in where one of us was eliminated.
@ Pete U: I think you played an essentially perfect game from Fall 1901 (spring obviously could've been better) until Fall 1904. In 1905 you agreed to a set-up with your fleets in Wes & Naf, which meant you were powerless to a stab be my and Austria. And you disbanded your fleets instead of armies, which made it real easy for me to keep you contained and eliminate you slowly. I think the move that would've guaranteed you the draw is Mao-Nao in Spring 1905.
Nah, that move would have guaranteed me a solo ;)
I don't get why everyone was convinced you'd solo in 1904. You were on 9 centers, with Austria on 9 too. Maybe you'd have gotten a fleet past Mao, Spain or Marseilles, but how are you taking all of Austria's 9 centers without losing your gains in the Med?
If I knew the answer to that, I would have won this game. But if France had attacked you, it's possible I could have gotten a more solid grip on any of StP, Marseilles, or Spain before you or Austria could have done something about it, especially Russian were helping me.

If France moves MAO-NAO and sneaks into Liverpool, how many turns go by and how many fleets do I have by Iberia before you two start cooperating again? Hard for me to say, but I wish I'd tried a bit harder to get France to do something like that. He never had any interest all game in throwing or threatening to throw, and Russia did, so Valid was my preoccupation in 1904.
If he had moved Mao-Nao (which I was pretty afraid of honestly), I'd have offered to allow him in to Liverpool uncontested and never attempt to take it back, if he took it with his fleet instead of a convoy. That would've allowed him to build an extra fleet, secure the line in time so as to not lose Spain, Mar or Mao (or at least not multiple) and would've left me with not enough units to take him out safely. It's a risky move, I agree, but I was pretty worried about it during the game.


20 replies
Chumbles (791 D(S))
11 Sep 15 UTC
Reliability Ratings and drop outs
We all have games where players losing drop out, but there are some which get utterly ruined by guys in pivotal positions going AWOL. Is it time that players who are proven unreliable have to sit out for a period?
37 replies
Open
BlueLight (178 D)
11 Sep 15 UTC
New game: I Should Working, but....
Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Points-per-supply-center, 3 days/phase. 10 D to join.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=167271

1 reply
Open
diplomat61 (223 D)
10 Sep 15 UTC
Proposed classic game "Infamy V"
"Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me" - Julius Caesar, Carry on Cleo

Anon, PPSC, 24hr turns. Anyone interested?
3 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
09 Sep 15 UTC
So, HOW ABOUT THOSE METS?! :D Oh, and NFL WEEK 1 PICK 'EM!
Hi. What's new? :3 Um, something something Shakespeare...
And it's NFL Pick 'em Time...yes, time to pick a new commissioner! ;) Or, you know, divisions, wild cards, conference title games, and the Super Bowl winner. And of course the week by week picks--Steelers/Patriots go tomorrow, Sunday notables include Broncos/Ravens, Chargers/Lions, Giants/Cowboys, and my OH GOD WHAT THE HELL ARE THOSE BLACK JERSEYS?! 49ers play Monday night! The Week 1 match-ups...pick 'em!
25 replies
Open
MonsieurJavert (214 D)
09 Sep 15 UTC
(+4)
webDip-vDip crossover
Hello webDip!
I hail from your sister site, vDip, where I run under the handle TheatreVarus.
We are severely starved for players at the moment, and were hoping some of you could join up.
We have many available variants, including my current favorite, Viking Diplomacy.
70 replies
Open
gigtigre (100 D)
22 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Do girls play diplomacy?
Pretty new on this site...just curious if there are very many/any girls playing?
423 replies
Open
backscratcher (459 D)
10 Sep 15 UTC
A question about Builds/Destroys
If a country has to disband a unit during the build phase and doesn't turn in orders, how does the server decide which unit to disband for the player?
4 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
09 Sep 15 UTC
Tips for World Diplomacy
I have played 50+ games on the World Diplomacy variant, but I have not soloed. Honestly, it seems like you can see a powerhouse coming so far back, it is impossible to not get faced with a stalemate line!

Please post any hints here, I wanna conquer the world :'(
10 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
06 Sep 15 UTC
(+24)
I proposed to my girlfriend today!
Now she's calling all her long-distance friends, so who wants to play some World of Warships!
57 replies
Open
diplomat61 (223 D)
10 Sep 15 UTC
Anonymous Gunboat "Glowworm"
Proposed: Anon, 24 hour turns, PPSC

Anyone interested?
0 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
10 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
Extra! Extra! Introduction to DATC!
We have a new video up on how to use the Diplomacy Adjudicator Test Cases (DATC) to help resolve nuanced orders!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obtKRsh-Owg
13 replies
Open
cb6000 (100 D(S))
09 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
EXACTLY when does a game end?
In my set of rules, rule XIII indicates that possession of a SC only occurs after fall retreats have been completed. On this site, it seems that for purposes of determining a solo victory, a victory is declared following the fall diplomacy phase prior to retreats. For clarification: on a fall turn that great power A takes its 18th SC but great power B could then retreat into into one of country A's SCs, is country A awarded a win prior to that fall's retreats? Thank you.
22 replies
Open
MarquisMark (326 D(G))
08 Sep 15 UTC
Fantasy Drafts
So how did y'all's fantasy drafts go? End up something good or make any mistakes? 1st game this Thursday.
4 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
09 Sep 15 UTC
WhatsApp on MacBook
Dear All,
Who has a good idea for a WhatsApp on my MacBook that synchronizes with my telephone?
Cheers, red
14 replies
Open
hellalt (95 D)
08 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
ich bin wieder da
hello bitches!
I m back (again)
Join me in hell if you dare!
gameID=167173
13 replies
Open
cgwhite32 (1465 D)
07 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
Returning after a four year break...
... as an old adversary messaged me offline and I decided to succumb to temptation. I was wondering if any of those former combatants, or indeed anyone else, fancied a classic map, slow turn (probably 48 hour), press intensive game to get me back up to speed.

Post below...
60 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
Enigma Diplomacy
I'd like to try a new variant. Global Press only, but with some time before the game starts to talk privately with each player to devise codes to be used during the game. Is there any interest in this?
45 replies
Open
Boromacat (100 DX)
07 Sep 15 UTC
Which territory is most seldom occupied?
I think it is down to Syria, Livonia, or Clydesdale.
52 replies
Open
civwarbuff (305 D)
08 Sep 15 UTC
Signed up for a game that hasn't begun yet but.....
due to how busy I am going to be I am going to actually ask for a replacement. The game is "How much is it worth" and it has until tomorrow at 1 P.M. before it begins.
13 replies
Open
Bad85 (576 D)
08 Sep 15 UTC
Sitter Needed for gameID=165291
Dear Forum, I would like to ask whether someone wants to sit
my country in gameID=165291 and, not playing very often, propose me
the modalities of transferring my account information. Thanks!
4 replies
Open
Macchiavelli (2856 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
What nationalities do we have on site?
(Now that we've seen asking about gender here causes temper tantrums...)
39 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
08 Sep 15 UTC
Academic License Taylor and Francis "Molecular Physics"
Hey all,
Is there anybody here that can access articles from the journal "Molecular Physics" from publisher Taylor and Francis?
2 replies
Open
Landru428 (160 D)
07 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
Where do I post suggestions?
Am I the only person that doesn't understand why they page layout is so narrow? there is significant space in the right and left margins for order information, game state information, and everything you need at a single glance, instead of all the scrolling i have to do. the layout is especially important because the page has to be refreshed constantly.
5 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
24 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
webDip F2F Redux
It's was great meeting everyone from webDip, but unfortunately, we didn't all get to play against each other. Would anyone fancy a game here? I'd prefer non-anon 36 hour phases, but it is, of course, negotiable.
50 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
04 Sep 15 UTC
Is Israel an 'apartheid state'?
i'm sure this will lead to zero controversy... (See inside)
65 replies
Open
DeathLlama8 (514 D)
07 Sep 15 UTC
Away from Home - an SRG
Idea for a new SRG - the winner is either a.) the first player to move a unit to a center more than <x> territories further away from where it originated or b.) whoever solos
2 replies
Open
DelicateSteve (100 D)
07 Sep 15 UTC
Live Games Start Here
Utilize this in the hunt for live games, the biggest struggle since the apple start-up.
1 reply
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
25 Aug 15 UTC
Trump
Hmm...
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-twitter-tirade-121707.html?hp=rc3_4_b1
My guess is he's actually a very insecure person who's now deliberately turning himself into a caricature so as to be absolutely unelectable.
112 replies
Open
leon1122 (190 D)
26 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
Suggestion
This website should have statistics for each country of each map (wins, draws, losses, etc.) like vdiplomacy.

I know this is a feature request and I'm supposed to check the todo list, but the forum that the "todo list" link directs to doesn't seem to have been used since last year, and I can't seem to find the actual list anywhere.
10 replies
Open
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