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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Frollo (1033 D)
17 Mar 13 UTC
Rules: What will happen, if...
Hello. Could you please explain, what will happen in the following case. There are 4 areas: 1,2,3,4, team A occupies 1 and 2, team B - 3 and 4.
Team A moves: Army at 1: move from 1 to 3; Army at 2: support move from 1 to 3. Team B moves: Army at 3: move from 3 to 2; Army at 4: support move from 3 to 2. What will happen: nothing? Or team B's army will move from 3 to 2, team's A army at 2 will be dislodged and team A's army will move from 1 to 3? Thanks for clarification.
18 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Forum Spamming
I would just like to remind people the trouble Kestas went through to build a PM system. This means that if you have a message for an individual member, you can send it to them directly. Isn't that neat? Please stop spamming the Forum.
16 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Cheating Refund Policy
See below.
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
I have been involved in far too many live games lately with cheaters who have been caught after they have already ruined a game by having an unfair advantage. If regular phase games are cancelled once multiple cheaters are identified, why not institute a similar policy for live games? Obviously they can't be cancelled, but I would suggest providing a refund for those players who play within the rules and have games ruined by others who decide to flaunt the rules.

WebDiplomacy has an excellent core membership who constitute the greater portion of the better players on this site. Cheating has been on the rise lately, as we all know, and those of us who prefer live gunboats tend to bear the brunt of the vast majority of those cheaters due to the nature of the games. It is quite easy, under regular circumstances, to set up a quality game with reputable players. Unfortunately, it is difficult to do for live games, and as a result, the quality of competition is truly random. I would love to be able to set up live games far in advance, but this is usually out of the question, as many of you know.

I propose a refund system that would act as an after-the-fact cancellation. I understand that games cannot be undone after they finish, which I am fine with, but too many of the core members of this community have been unjustly beaten and taken advantage of by the setup of this site which we love and enjoy so much. I feel that it is only fair to provide such a service to keep the core constituency of this site happy.
Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Maybe a straightforward code change that allows the mods/admins/Kestas to cancel a game after it is finished and return the buyin to all non-banned members inthe game plus remove it from your stats?
jimgov (219 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
@Draugnar - what about the cheats that suck? Some of them go on and lose the game anyway. Then, some unsuspecting schmuck that wins the game and got the points loses them? I'm just throwing that out there. I'm not sure that an all or nothing coding will work. But I don't have a solution either.
Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Limit it to games with multiple banned players in it and a banned player won or was part of the draw. Also, seeing as points cost nothing, a refund to anyone eliminated in a game with multiple banned players wouldn't be out of order. You just couldn;t cancel those games.
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
jimgov, even if a cheat sucks during a game, it still negatively impacts the game beyond the cheater's elimination.
jimgov (219 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
@2nd - Oh I know that. But it seems wrong that some poor guy who played fair and square and made it to the end and won suddenly gets the points pulled from him.

@Dragner - That seems more appropriate.
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
jim, the mods cancel regular gunboats mid game, regardless of player position. This is essentially the same thing, just after the fact.
ulytau (541 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
This is where I get refunds for faulty multis? About time.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
I would say this is only fair if people who won points in a game with cheaters end up getting points deducted. Otherwise playing with cheats is a win-win. If you are defeated, who cares you get a refund, if you survive, you get to keep the points.
Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
But you won't know if you are playing with cheaters until they get banned.
Fairfax (1915 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
So every other live game gets cancelled after it ends, eh? That's pretty silly idea.
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Not the best idea. Honestly, I don't think I've ever been whooped by a cheater. I mean I'm sure it's happened maybe once in my tenure, but by and large most players who cheat are really pretty dismal.

If you find yourself frequently loosing to cheaters, it means that you need to step your game up a bit.
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
While we're discussing things like this, I'd like to raise the possibility of splitting the score ladders from Diplomacy and Gunboat games. It would be easier for me to understand people's skill level at the game if their Diplomacy record weren't merged with their Gunboat record.
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
I've been in two live games that were paused via mod and cancelled bc of cheating. I got a refund.
patizcool (100 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@Al:
The breakdown is already up on TGM's site

@2WL:
I like the idea. This doesn't affect a lot of the players on this site that only play 24 hour phases, etc. but it very negatively impacts those players who try to do live games because (In my opinion) the majority of cheating goes on during live games.
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
14 Mar 13 UTC
I think the mods have a very good policy (and are very good at, not to mention) catching cheaters during full phase games. Most of the cheating, in my experience, does happen in live games, and I think its something that needs to be addressed. Also, don't confuse "cheating" with "CD", which also happens quite a bit in live games.

Al, it's not as much about losing to cheaters. It's about more than one player having an unfair influence over the course of a game and affecting its outcome in an unnatural way. This by no means implies that cheaters win; in most cases, they don't, but the game is still affected. Full phase games can be canceled, why not a similar policy for live games?
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Alright, we are going to talk this over and try and work something out. Just a few quick comments in the meantime.

I urge anyone in a live game who suspects cheating to send an email to us *immediately*. Even if the game only has another 10 minutes to go. Between the 5 of us there is normally someone online. I'd say we get to at least half of the live games with reported cheating in time to pause and later cancel them.

Something else that I am willing to do that was proposed a while back is have live game nights. I can figure out a time to be online and watch live games to make sure they are clean. If you want to send us an email a few hours before you start one we'll try to get someone online to check it out or to look into any concerns.

I'd actually argue that the level of cheating hasn't increased, it's just being caught fast enough for people to notice it now. With Goldie and Tom on board we're catching cheaters a lot faster since there is a lighter workload. Cancelling finished games isn't something the moderators can do though, so we'll discuss solutions with Kestas.



2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Thanks for the input, jmo. It's appreciated. Again, I'm not talking about retroactively canceling games, although that's one possibility, but refunding buy-ins for those players whose games were compromised, either in a positive or negative way.

On a related note, and this doesn't seem like it would be too difficult, could you add a section under "Help" that lists the current mods online?
jimgov (219 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
@jmo - Just wondering. About how often are games canceled due to cheating? Once a day? Once a week? Once a month?
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
@2ndWhiteLine, We can't change the FAQ, but I did just suggest the idea and a few others like it to Kestas. I'll be talking with the rest of the team, and we should be able to figure something out for live games that we don't catch in time.

@jimgov, it really depends. I've gone over a month without cancelling a game. Not to say there weren't people breaking the rules or multi-accounting during that time, they just weren't using 2 accounts in one game.

The past week or so I've cancelled 4 games. 2 were with new members who didn't understand how to make a private game and had other members join unintentionally. One was a live game with a multi, and one was a regular length with a multi. That's higher then average, probably around a game a week. Maybe a bit less often than that.
jimgov (219 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Thanks. I was just wondering. People talk about it like it is happening all the time and I just wanted a round-about number.
mscott (384 D(G))
17 Mar 13 UTC
@jim:
Check your finished games and you'll get a sense for frequency. You've completed 80 games, and in those 80 games there have been 35 banned players (quick count).
So assume, roughly, that in every other game there will be one player doing something bannable. Playing higher stakes and with non-anonymous probably lowers those chances significantly. I don't play live, but found low-stakes games to have a higher likelihood in my experience.
mscott (384 D(G))
17 Mar 13 UTC
I have complete 47 games, and there are 17 banned players in those games. In one case it was three, in two cases two, in the rest a single. So 13 games out of 47, or 28% of my completed games. Maybe one in four games is a better guess than one in two. And I can't say why people were banned. I think it is often not collusion, but someone who wants to make multi- accounts even if they play completely separate games. Total guess there, but with so many games having only one banned player, it seems like that player would gain no particular advantage unless working with another in the same game.
jimgov (219 D(B))
17 Mar 13 UTC
Wow. I never knew. The mods must go crazy chasing all of these people down.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
17 Mar 13 UTC
Just to expand on what you pointed out mscott, in those 80 games only 6 of them had 2+ banned players. This means that all the other games with banned players were unaffected by the cheating. Most multi's play in multiple games and only cheat in several, so the other games they play in have 1 banned player, but no cheating. Assuming there is someone cheating in every other game is a huge overestimation of the cheating on the site.

For example, Lando is one of the most active gunboat and live game players around, and in his last 50 games there have been 2 games affected by cheating. The Czech, who's played hundreds of games has 2 affected by cheating in the last 100 games.

If someone likes live games I wouldn't let a fear of cheating stop you from playing them.
Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Mar 13 UTC
@mscott - Seems to me you have only had 3 games disrupted by cheating.
mscott (384 D(G))
17 Mar 13 UTC
Agreed - not much actually disrupted by banned players (assuming they were all caught). I would have to say that players quitting or failing to input moves have had a far more deleterious effect on games in my experience than actual collusion (or apparent collusion).


27 replies
podium (498 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Holiday For Men
Yesterday was national steak and blowjob day.
Did you celebrate?
What other odd holidays do you celebrate?
89 replies
Open
damian (675 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
150cc Weekend Diplomacy Club (Take 3)
Wish you could find high quality games, with no CDs? So do I. I want to try and get the 150cc club going again, but this time I have a twist that I think will help it actually get off the ground.
5 replies
Open
erist (228 D(B))
17 Mar 13 UTC
How would this change things?
Thread for the hypothetical proposal of variants and speculation on how it would change game dynamics
14 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Privatization
What kind of stuff that is mostly public can safely be privatized? Prisons? Highways? Hospitals? Discuss.
42 replies
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
17 Mar 13 UTC
EOG - You, me ... and TANKS!-3
Well...Germany royally screwed up what was setting up to be a great game by leaving.
4 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+2)
Hey krellin
Do you know what "yes or no question" means?
109 replies
Open
blankflag (0 DX)
17 Mar 13 UTC
pirate internet
this isnt really news so im not putting it in my other thread. but who has considered pirate internet and how it could work to get around a tyranical government? precedents are the ussr fax machine network and of course pirate radio.
40 replies
Open
The Czech (40398 D(S))
17 Mar 13 UTC
Full Euro Pree
So who was everyone?
21 replies
Open
Ayreon (3398 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Metagaming or Double account in live game Rusty Fast
A very strange strategy in this game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=112718#gamePanel
where Russia and Austria played as a single player... I ask to the developer of the site to verify the game and the position of the two players thanks.
1 reply
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Why full press live games?
I've seen a lot of live games advertised that are 5 minute phases that, once I click on them, are full press. Why? I find it hard enough to get in gunboat orders in 5 minutes once the game gets going. What is the draw to such a game?
9 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
15 Mar 13 UTC
WTF? Why the hell would they do that?
More inside...
9 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Another suggestion on forum improvements
The forum automatically detects excessive posting and duplicate posting. Can it catch "live game" with a simple update? Provide a message and reroute to the live games thread? In that vein, can it catch various phrases regarding cheating accusations?
0 replies
Open
dirge (768 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
RIP Allen Calhamer
The creator of Diplomacy, Allen Calhamer, passed away last week at the age of 81.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-03/news/ct-met-calhamer-obit-20130303_1_games-magazine-game-companies-diplomacy
2 replies
Open
Petraeus (0 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Join Fast Game Live now!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=112708
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
13 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
New Pope
Don't know who yet; only know that they've got white smoke. Any last second guesses and, when the word does come out, reactions?
165 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Science Weekly
I'd like a place where we can have serious, high-level discussions on scientific research. To that end, I've shamelessly stolen obi's idea for a Forum series. Please see inside for this week's white-paper, taken from the "Burning fossil fuels" thread.
104 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Hey 2ndWhiteLine
YES OR NO: "Do bo-sox and jimgov still have blueballs because they miss you so much, or is the answer no because you gsve them their release?"

Come on, pal, it's a simple question! Yes or No! In your world ALL yes or no questions are answerable...so come on, chump!
1 reply
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Fast Europe 25 EOG
Crappppp! Good game, guys. I really screwed up a few orders there in the last few years, but you kept me from getting the solo.
9 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
He 2WL
Why are you so obsessed with following jimgov around and seconding his emotions? Are you that hard up for an original thought?
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Hey JimGov
Are yo just another government lapdog that believes everything the government tells you?

Why can't you read a scientific paper that *Abge* posted and admit the science is correct, and that maybe your precious government is misinformed?
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Hey Bo-Sox
Do you know the definition of PLAGIARISM?

Why do you plagiarize other people's work and post it on WebDip as if it's your own?
0 replies
Open
Timur (684 D(B))
15 Mar 13 UTC
Stoned Agin!
Why don't we all go back to the old 60's hippy vibe for a game?
(See below.)
35 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+2)
Nashville, Tennessee: Anyone lives here?
Does anyone live in or near Nashville, TN?

Also, (Native HOT) Pad Thai food is the way to go, not "American" hot.
When you go to a Thai restaurant, be sure to ask for native hot. You won't regret it!@!
8 replies
Open
Mnrogar (100 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Quick Game in 20 mins
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=112664
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
1988 Predicts Los Angelas 2013
http://gizmodo.com/5990791/what-1988-los-angeles-thought-itd-look-like-in-2013

Interesting read....got some of it right...but I still don't have a robot to do my dishes.
0 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
15 Mar 13 UTC
This is a fucking travesty
See inside...
67 replies
Open
FlemGem (1297 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+3)
dog poop thread
Krellin, I love you, but could you please discuss dog poop in this thread instead of in the "nice things" thread?
9 replies
Open
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