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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
03 Dec 12 UTC
Unicorns Are Real!
Says Kim Jong Un, Time's likely Man of the Year. No doubt now.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/30/unicorns-existence-proven-says-north-korea/?hpt=hp_t3
6 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Dec 12 UTC
US Manufacturing: Brains over Braun?
Interesting look at US Manufacturing success:
http://boingboing.net/2012/12/03/why-some-manufacturing-is-re.html

2 replies
Open
TheMinisterOfWar (553 D)
03 Dec 12 UTC
Fun feature suggestion
A personalized black list and white list to help you track who you vowed to never play with again, and who you like to play. We all do it anyway, the site might as well warn us.
9 replies
Open
Mapu (362 D)
03 Dec 12 UTC
Webdip Fantasy Football
All hail Cobra Kai as the regular season champion, with a dominating 10-3 record.

Bring me your finest meats and cheeses!
10 replies
Open
sandiegosmith (233 D)
03 Dec 12 UTC
Mow em down still needs admin help
Mow em down needs an admin to make a fleet build in san for south africa. A bug prevented his being offered the build and the game is waiting on pause.
10 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
26 Nov 12 UTC
Why we love the USA......
..... an opportunity to shout it loud and proud all the things you love about the greatest country on Earth
166 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
Your body is drug, the FDA can regulate it
Its amazing what the US can come up with.
http://www.anh-usa.org/fda-new-claim-body-is-a-drug/

http://gizmodo.com/5881492/according-to-the-fda-your-stem-cells-are-now-drugs
20 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
UN gives Palestine Observer Status
Thoughts?
76 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
29 Nov 12 UTC
I need some fashion advice from you members who are conscious of it. Thank you.
I HAVE a medium grey wool 2 piece two button thin lapel slim cut EXTREMELY tailored suit.
34 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Dec 12 UTC
OFRO - Getting a Brain Soon?
Our Future Robot Overlords: Interesting article on developments towards neural network architecture, overcoming linear/digital networks ("real" neurons are not truly digital like silicon), etc. Anyway, OFRO's may be getting a better brain soon. Just add weapons...
2 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Dec 12 UTC
SEAHAWKSSEAHAWKSEAHAWKS SEAHWAKSSEAHAWKSEAH
SEAHAWKSSEAHAWKSEAHAWKSEAHWKASHSEAHAWKSEAHAWKSHEEAHAWKSSEAHAWKSSEAHAWKSEAHAWKSEAHWKASHSEAHAWKSEAHAWKSHEEAHAWKS
23 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
august rush 2nd EoG thread
GAME SUMMARY gameID=89627

Classic, WTA, full-press, anon, 114 , PW protected
redhouse1938 (429 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Germany: DRAW '18, 13 SCs, Mr A, Blitzkrieg opening - Dutch variation
England: DRAW, 10 SCs, Imhotep, Southern opening - Welsh variant
Turkey: DRAW, 6 SCs, MadMarx, Balkan concentration
Russia: DRAW, 5 SCs, redhouse1938, Ukraine system, Lapland Lurch / Southern Defence
Italy: Defeated '13, 2ndWhiteLine, Stab Lepanto
France: Defeated '11, achillies27, Atlantic Opening, Picardy variant
Austria: Defeated '04, LakersFan, Rumanian gambit, Balkan Roadhog variant

EoG by Russia: "The Northern Triple"

Introduction
In may of this year, I was slowly starting to plan my retirement from this site. The honest truth of it is: the game is too addictive. I'm too eager. The thrill of seeing a message from a country that I'm hoping to achieve a diplomatic breakthrough with is too great, whereas an email from an old friend has to wait nowadays. I stay up late to see the orders resolution, even if the game is slowly deteriorating in a bloodless draw. I had one last wish, and that is to play one game with MadMarx. I just wanted to see if he was really as good as his GR suggests. Well, he is. At least, in a weird, hard-to-follow sense he is. The man makes mistakes, even grave ones, but dang, if there's one person aggressively pursuing policies to repair them and fight back it's him.
And now it's over. 18 diployears, 175 pages of press and countless orders later we've finished the games and while Marxie is preparing for fatherhood, I have nothing but my mental health to end my webdip career for.
It was a great game. I enjoyed greatly playing with all of you and being the abbrasive, arrogant person that I am I'm certain you'll take my word for it. The two people I enjoyed the game the most with are certainly Imhotep (E) and Mr A (G). And we've certainly been through a great adventure together.

Spring 1901, Negotiations on a Northern Triple (!) a Juggernaut and an alliance with Austria
It all started when, for the fourth time in my webdip career (despite having finished no more than sixteen games on this site) I drew Russia. I'd pretty much had it with Russia, but there's one thing I couldn't get enough of doing, and that was opening with StP-Fin. I think I've done that in all but one of my Russia games and it gives me immesurable pleasure every time I do it.
Of course, I do it for a reason and this time the reason was that I wanted to try a Northern Triple and that's exactly what Mr A (1) and Imhotep (2) are doing in 1901. I think looking at the map in its final configuration and these first messages referenced here makes an interesting footnote in opening message history.
Turkey opened negotiations with me by proposing a Juggernaut (3). I don't like his message, but he puts control of the Juggernaut effectively in my hands.

My opening conversation with Austria is extremely friendly, but ultimately fails to bring results because of my wrong-doing. The fact is that the Northern Triple, contrary to what I expected, resonates a lot with Germany and England and because I effectively agreed to a Juggernaut (actually all I want is peace at my southern boarder and control of R/T) I have nothing left to offer Austria. The bounce in Galicia is agreed, my going to Ukraine isn't and neither is his going to Rumania, which I find a very bold move, since I'm allied to all my neighbors.

1902-1903 Consolidation of the Northern Triple
As you can see, the Northern Triple I proposed in 1901 is extremely effective. Germany complains about England's fleet build in a manner that I thought was premature and slightly blunt (and when I say slightly, I actually mean slightly, it's not a euphemism for it being too blunt, it just came off as a little strong and England and me discuss it, without attaching immediate consequences to it).
Tensions also grow between me, Italy and Turkey. I believe the core problem in my relationship with Italy is the same as it was with Austria. With my northern boarder way too secure, any friend I have in the south is actually half a friend too many.

1904 - 1905 Fluid Diplomacy, continuous rearrangement of Alliances
After my conquest of Vienna, for a variety of reasons that I can't remember but believe to be primarily diplomatic, I declare war on Germany by building F StP SC and England promises to join. For the understanding of the events that follow, the 1904 move Rum S Bul-Ser turns out to be one of the most significant moves of the game for my nation. I finally decide that I want to ally with Turkey rather than Italy and again, the reasons escape me, but probably this has to do with two things. 1) My war with Germany will probably be a land war and with lots of armies, I can become dominant in central Europe without posing a threat to Turkey and England, my allies. 2) For an attack on Turkey, I'd have to immediately attack his mainland, whereas an attack on Italy allows me an indirect attack, for the moment sparing the Italian mainland.
Autumn 1904 finished with Nth-Eng, a move I am very angry with. I expected England's support in my war with Germany. I don't mention this to England though. I pretend we are still friends and have Germany as our common enemy, but secretely, during 1905, I try to broker a deal with Germany to invade England, which I succeed in doing in the autumn when Germany destroys his Livonia fleet.
In the south, disaster strikes. As I mentioned in autumn 1904 I decide to side with Turkey against Italy (whose relationship is rapidly souring) and support Turkey into Ser, where I support hold him in spring 1904 just to make sure. To my enormous surprise Turkey then decides to invade Sevastopol in autumn 1905.
I am absolutely stunned by this move. I have never in my entire diplo-career been stabbed so deeply. After helping Turkey into Serbia, supporting him there during a turn that he can't do it himself, he decides to invade me, and not very subtly. While claiming he only wanted to destroy my offensive capacities toward him, he uses an army and not a fleet. Also, while one of my peripheral SCs (Rum) is available to him, he chooses to go for a home SC.
The conflict this move provokes runs so deep, that it essentially remains unresolved during the entire rest of the game.
In retrospect, I believe Turkey heavily bet on me and Germany staying at war and I'm lucky that in the same move Turkey stabs me, my negotiations with Germany start reaching their climax.

1906-1909 The Second Northern Triple
One of the most fun periods of the game is the Second Northern Triple, that lasts another three years. At this point, I'm starting to acquire a reputation for relative reliability and tactical prowess, which means I can effectively supply France with advice that allows him to last long after his expiration date (France stays alive with a single army for five years) and that allows me to slow down my allies' advance and vex Italy, with whom I haven't been able to restore relations, as he fell victim earlier in the game to my double play (not so much stabbing, but definitely very dirty Diplomacy) and doesn't want this to happen a second time.
This is definitely a period during which the cultural development in Europe reaches its climax under the Pax Nordica (4).

1910-Spring 1917 the German-Russian alliance
England fights a very divided southern board and this allows him to expand at a much faster rate than Germany and I do. I convince Germany that we have to attack England in order to make sure England doesn't solo or set up a very credible preparation for it and that the fact that we are about to invade England's home SCs probably means relations with him can't be restored after it. To make things a little better, I do send England a formal declaration of war.
Germany is a very anxious player and he keeps reminding me of my fleet build in 1903, that he believes marks what was the pointless end of an effective alliance. In hindsight, he was right. He keeps making me promise to work toward a Two-Way Draw, which I do, at first without being serious about it and finally I'm serious about it: 2WL and MM are well known players who are extremely dangerous and knowing they're in the game, a 2 way may not be such a bad result, although I keep proposing alternatives to Germany such as a race to the finish.

Autumn 1917 - 1918 The last hurrah
Germany decides to invade me. I believe he's driven by a combination of my impopularity on the board at this point (which in turn I think is partly fuelled by me having set up everyone against everyone else in the prior years and getting cranky at the long duration of the game and its phases) and his fear that I will eventually stab him if he doesn't do so first.
He puts his draw flag up and this, I believe, was completely silly. It was obvious that he was making a solo run, and if he wasn't, he should have. Turkey and England have a big problem at this point: I don't really mind Germany's stab. I still considered the 1905 stab by Turkey the deciding factor in my foreign policy and not the stab that Germany just gave me.
England's problem is that I decide to focus on protecting my homeland, meaning Germany can crash through the Balkans (which he does) with impunity and that if he takes Norway, I will stop communicating with him for failing to stop the solo at the right moment.
Finally, the solo threat by Germany is so credible, I manage to convince England and Turkey to put their draw flags up. Germany leaving his draw-flag hanging during this period determines the final outcome of the game: a four way draw.

COMMENTS ON PLAYERS
Mr A: Very well played, although I found you a little paranoia every now and then. At the height of our alliance 1913-1914, I thought I noticed a development toward you slowly feeling confident in allying with me and I greatly enjoyed our conversations during this period. I strenuously apologize for my genuine misorders during this period.
Imhotep: Brilliant game, I think you were the best player during the entire game and I thought you were a fun conversationalist.
MadMarx: Obviously you're a good player, I did think on the spectrum of emotion-driven strategy to intellect-driven strategy you had a tendency to err toward the former.
2ndWhiteLine: I think you played a solid game, but at times I thought that perhaps you were a little absent-minded? My memory is too vague for a better recollection than that.
achillies27: I also think you played a solid game, perhaps next game you should work on really charting a course for your nation, see if you can divise a strategy that includes everything and everyone, so you can tune your relationships to achieve your goals.
LakersFan: Also a solid game, but I believe you should have played a little more cautiously in the beginning.

@All: thanks, I really enjoyed this game, but I'm never playing 2 day phases again, it got on my nerves :-)

REFERENCES
========================================
(1)
(To: Germany, from you) - Spring, 1901: Hey Kaiser,

An excellent game to you! Thank you for your message, in which you present some ideas that can create trust and an early foundation for cooperation. I just started the game and you are the first one I send a message; I am very open to different alliances and friendships. I promise to be very careful of our Ottoman friend and see that our board does not quietly turn pale yellow. Regarding your proposals (NAP, Pru&Sil DMZs), I can agree with them - consider these areas as quiet as an alpine meadow - but would you perhaps be interested in expanding on that agreement a little ? I have never done this before and haven't found online resources on this combination, so I was thinking about just tossing the idea on the table and see what everybody thinks. And by everybody I mean you and England:

I was considering the option of a "Northern Triple" (EGR) and use this game to write Diplomacy History. Allow me to present some moves I had in mind, from west to east:

Lon-Eng (powerful for England, keeps it safe)
Kie-Hol (leads to some interesting centers, creates early trust)
StP-Fin (I love this move as a sign of my friendship with you)
War-Gal
DMZs in StP&Liv and asking England to not move Lvp-Edi and Edi-NwS in combination with each other.

Would you be interested in such an adventure?

Regards, The Czar

========================================
(2)
(To: England, from you) - Spring, 1901: Hello Your Majesty,

A splendid game to you! What's cooking in the west? Any interesting plans to conquer the world? If there aren't any at the moment, I'd have some!

It’s something I’ve never done before, and haven’t read a lot about on the Internet, so we might be writing a chapter of Diplohistory if we’re succesful! I was thinking about organizing a northern triple (EGR). I already contacted Germany about it. What do you think?

I just add some concrete moves and DMZs to stimulate the senses:

StP = DMZ (to make this plan interesting to you)
StP-Fin (to make this plan interesting for the Kaiser)
Lon-Eng (I guess that’s a standard move in any E/R)

A last ingredient could be that Lvp-Edi (or Cly) and Edi-NwS aren’t played in combination. I hope Germany does a Dutch opening. If the basic outline of this idea appeals to you, or if you have other plans for cooperation, I’d be very happy to learn all about them. Also, I hope you and Germany will discuss this plan between the two of you, also to verify my intentions to do this together.

Greetings,

His Royal Pompousness the Czar

========================================
(3)
(To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Greetings and good luck!

Any interest in a Jugg? Thoughts on how to hide it? Want to bounce in Black Sea or DMZ it? Any other thoughts?

========================================
(4)
(To: Global, from Austria) - Spring, 1908: Per Russia's request:

A proud Blue nation
Overrun by those Pinkies
Glad he's in Venice.

(To: Global, from Austria) - Spring, 1908: Early EoG:

Everyone hates Red
So who controls the Balkans?
Yep... Not Austria!

(To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1908: Time to sleep guys, see you all tomorrow. Anyone who readies up gets a cookie. I see the game progressing tomorrow, drinks are on me. :-)
(To: Global, from Turkey) - Autumn, 1908: Why such a hurry?
Cookies don't motivate me...
Neither do drinks... DRAW!!

(To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1909:
There once was a player in Italy,
Who claimed all he saw was a Broken Key,
So he stabbed right away
and in that huge misplay
Sealed his fate as the one to fall # 3

(To: Global, from Austria) - Autumn, 1909: August's rush gone to
September's slow shuffle off
this mortal coil

(To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1909: The one from Trieste
Learns a valuable lesson
Never play the Key :)

(To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1909: There was once a player named France
Whose country got screwed in a glance
He fled to the south
Then opened his mouth
And begged for his life as last chance

(To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1909: There was once a king from Great Britain
Whose press was quite clear and well-written
Except to the French
Who fled in their trench
When Britain chose France to be smitten

(To: Global, from Italy) - Autumn, 1910: No fair, France is much easier to rhyme than Russia.

There once was a czar from St. Pete
Against whom I attempted to beat
I tried to take Buda
And got smoked like a gouda
Now I hope to avoid defeat

(To: Global, from you) - Autumn, 1910: Little poem about 1905

There was once a bold czar from Russia
Who found a brown tank down in Prussia
With no fear to fight
He sat down to write
"You crush it yourself, or I'll crush ya"
achillies27 (100 D)
21 Nov 12 UTC
Good game everyone, I joined this when I hadn't played very many games, Im sure if I joined now I would have had a different result :)
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
28 Nov 12 UTC
I'll try to pull something together by the end of the weekend, I was out of town visiting family the week of Thanksgiving, and while gone my wife had a miscarriage... We're doing real well considering, so I should be able to carve out a little time shortly...
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
28 Nov 12 UTC
I won't say much about this game, I've forgotten most of my mental notes at this point anyway. The line of demarcation in this game was the pause back in July. Up to that point, the game was competitive, fun, and intriguing. Pausing for a month killed that, and if I appeared absentminded, it's really because my heart wasn't in the game after that month. You can't take a break for that long and expect to just reignite interest in a game, even a game as good as this one.

I will comment, though, on playing with redhouse. I don't mean any offense, but you are a terrible player and I'm not entirely sure how you survived to the end. I think a sports analogy sums it up best - you're a lot like that one jerk on any soccer or basketball team that hustles too much, lacks an all-around game, trash talks, and generally makes life for their opponent miserable. But every so often, one of these guys hits a key three pointer in overtime that makes you hate them even more. For those of you who follow the NBA, think Mario Chalmers of the Miami Heat. I give you credit for surviving this game, although in retrospect I can't believe that Marx and I didn't get on (and stay on) the same page sooner, especially once he was sitting in Sev.

Anyway, this game was fun to a point.
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
28 Nov 12 UTC
Marx, sorry to hear about the unfortunate miscarriage. I'm sure you and your wife will pull through just fine.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
@Marx again I wish you strength and when you're ready, I'd be interested in your EoG.

@2WL, I'm a terrible player? Perhaps you would like to test that assertion in the game I'm starting when the new GR list comes out? I challenge thee, deer Sir!
redhouse1938 (429 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
*dear
redhouse1938 (429 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
Also, I didn't survive the game.
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
28 Nov 12 UTC
I'm sad to hear you are retiring rehouse. I've really enjoyed reading your EOGs and would enjoy playing a game with you.
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
28 Nov 12 UTC
"Also, I didn't survive the game."

You looking at the same game I am, or is this turning into a cheating accusation? :)
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
28 Nov 12 UTC
"I don't mean any offense, but you are a terrible player"

lol, wut?

Do you really trash talk redhouse? I would think that goes in a diplomacy never-ever do it file.
Imhotep (574 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
Just stopping in to say I'll have an EoG for you all real soon.
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
28 Nov 12 UTC
I don't think redhouse is a terrible player, but in this game, as I told him repeatedly, he was a complete and total ass, a miserable sort to be forced to interact with, but at least I won't have to do it ever again!! :-)

I understand being an ass from time to time is a strategy that can serve you well, and I've done my fair share of that on this site, but there are limits. Redhouse seems nice enough outside of the game, but inside this one game was enough for a lifetime for me, though I tend to be a bit soft.

PS - redhouse, thanks for the nice words, about you thinking I am a relatively decent player. Early on in my career hear I heard more than once that I was a terrible strategist, which was always fun to hear when the game ended in a solo for me. Anyway, I have a handle on strategy and tactics, but certainly fail miserably more often than I'd like. Sometimes I do get a bit bored and try something crazy knowing that I am relatively confident in my ability to talk my way out of a disaster, and even though I don't remember doing anything crazy in this game, my faded interest in the game after the long pause didn't help my decision making in the slightest.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
@2WL, what I meant was that not only did I survive, I was in the draw :-)

@Imhotep, cool!

@Gen. Lee, I'll be challenging everyone with a higher GR in the WTA classic FP non-live category for a game when the new GR list comes out, but I doubt people will want to play me.

@MadMarx, you can hate me (in-game), but you can't beat me (in-game) :-P
redhouse1938 (429 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
Re: pause, for me it was never a problem and I think it's only a problem if you let emotions dominate your play. After such a long pause, you should forget all emotions of before and simply make a strategic calculation and act on it. There's no need to lose momentum, or to get bored. Just make calculations and geaux, I say.

Also, re: MM again: I am still rather shocked by your first invasion into Sev. Was I correct in assuming you were counting on German support in that adventure, and did you negotiate about it with Germany?
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
28 Nov 12 UTC
So maybe redhouse is lacking in the humility department? Perhaps thats why they are saying you're an asshole, lol.

I'll be nowhere close to you on that GR list, so best of luck in that game, maybe another time if you you step back from the retirement cliff.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
28 Nov 12 UTC
With pleasure Gen. Lee!

And I actually am an asshole, I will admit that. You'll have to prepare for that...
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
29 Nov 12 UTC
Yeah, I'll second redhouse's claim to being an asshole, in this one game at least. One thing that bugs me is that redhouse said he figured out who I was and that he was an ass to me so that he would come off as being strong and not someone I should try to kill off, or something like that. Funny that all I wanted to do was kill redhouse most of the game, but in the end real life got too busy and I just wanted the game to end, especially since I don't care too much about a three-way versus a four-way, but I'll get into that stuff more for my EoG.

2ndWhiteLine, I wanted to get on with you and stay on for years and years, but to our defense, it's difficult with Italy and Turkey.

redhouse, I could have easily beaten you in-game, but it's one of those things that it is so clearly easy to do that the motivation (and weeks out of my life) to do it wasn't worth the effort, it was a foregone conclusion and there was no need to actually see it through. If we were playing F2F, we could have voted you out of the draw rather than waste all of our time actually killing you off, though I'm guessing your asshole in-game personality would have come shining through at that point and you would have kept everyone up until 4am to do it, and you would have enjoyed every ounce of (negative) attention you could have soaked up, but I digress! :-)

The pause, for me, ruined the game. I have come to the conclusion that a pause (especially one that is over one week long, and I think ours was over a month) is nearly equivalent to a NMR and CD to me, I have no interest in a game like that. There is much emotion in a game that I enjoy feeding off of, strip the game of that and you might as well be playing checkers. Just make calculations and geaux? Perhaps that's the real problem, playing you is like playing against what I'd call a typical "gunboater", it's all a bunch of math, 1 + 1 = 2, all actions are solely based on your selfish intentions with no acknowledgment of others, no emotion just facts, screw everyone at all costs regardless of how much (or, more typically, little) you benefit, etc., etc. No thanks!

Ahhhh, so much fun to talk some trash about others!! I've been chatting with another guy on this site that I found out lives in my home town, we're planning to play a game (I'm thinking anon, 36 hour phases, but will need to coordinate with him) in December, so I'll be looking for a few *enjoyable* players to pull in, meaning redhouse need not apply! ;-)

Where was I? Oh, yes, the Sev invastion. I did not negotiate with Germany to any extent, though we may have mentioned it in passing, and the German's help was not critical since in my mind it was not a declaration of war against you at that point, though I could certainly imagine at the time that you would not take too kindly to me being in Sev and that it may be an accidental declaration of war. I merely wanted peace and to advance my Turks, killing off your southern fleet and not allowing you to build a new fleet immediatley was 100% my motivation, though I'll admit I assumed the position would give me some options. I would have happily allied with you for the rest of the game if the pieces had fallen into place that way, and thus given my life to defend you until the end of times if it came to that, but I never got the opportunity to prove the extent to which I take pride in being loyal to a good ally.

Gen. Lee, you are correct, humility is a word in our language that redhouse has yet to comprehend. As far as the cliff, I say go ahead and jump, for everyone's sake including your own!! :-P
achillies27 (100 D)
29 Nov 12 UTC
Hey MadMarx! I would love to play with you again.
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
29 Nov 12 UTC
Dang red, see guys are carving you up. I read an article today that said an expert player will rarely lie. Perhaps it is because of the fall out we see here when red was manipulating all of the pieces where he wanted them, of course the article assumes face to face games where you can build a reputation here and still get behind an anonymous mask if need be. Thoughts on that general statement 2wL and Marx?
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
29 Nov 12 UTC
Hey achilles, I'll likely make a thread in a week or two about a few new games, maybe even have some be completely anonymous, we'll see, but keep your eyes open.

Gen. Lee, that's the annoying part, redhouse *thought* he was manipulating everything, and continually beating his chest about anything, claiming it was *all* his doing (I think once he even said he talked the sun into rising that morning), was sad and frustrating to watch him run around like a chicken with his head cut off and then brag about how he intentionally got blood in each of hundreds of unique places, as well as the logic behind each act... Damn, my blood pressure is rising just thinking about it!
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
29 Nov 12 UTC
FTR, the cliff comment was intended for redhouse, of course, and all in good fun (I'm confident redhouse is laughing at all this!), at times I tend to exaggerate for effect!! :-)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Nov 12 UTC
@MadMarx,
Well, most of the things you say happened actually did happen, but you're making no mention of more or less at what point in the game they happened makes it a bit weird for me to read.
As for being able to kill me being easy (yet taking weeks), it was, but, and this is probably another big reason you decided to draw the game in the end, only at the expense of your own participation in the final cut. For some turns near the end, I'd been supplying moves to Germany he could do at my expense, to thrust him as hard as I could to becoming a solo danger, but Mr A left his draw flag up all the time (lol, that was not smart Mr A, and I told you so even on Global ;-) ). He was obviously retreating the flag anytime soon as he was growing rapidly and that fear was what inspired you and England to take the opportunity to end it.
And if any of you think you can beat me, I'll be challenging you after the new GRs come out (I'll be challenging players higher GR ranked than me), because I honestly don't think you could have without that move being suicidal.
In the last twelve games I played on this site that had no cheating going on inside it, only twice was I not in the draw and only once did I not have at least 3 of my home centers until the end.
How's that for chest beating? ;-)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Nov 12 UTC
To me the key event in this game was the occupation in 1905 by Turkey of Sevastopol, but it was not the key event in and of itself.
The move followed by my assistance to Turkey to take *and* keep Serbia. Turkey's defense for the move was that he hoped to stop Russian fleets building up in the south. But, there was one little problem with that defense: if it were true, why not use a fleet to take Sev instead of an army? This was the most important question I had during the entire game and Turkey never addressed it, so at this point I concluded: this guy will simply say anything. Which is good, in Diplomacy! But once you revealed that really, all your words are intended to do is manipulate and their carrying an element of truth is not even to a minimum extent what you want them to do, all normal conversation is over. That is not my fault.
Loved playing with all of you though and in accontrary to what I've been readying, I actually enjoyed the whole game a lot. Cheers!
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Nov 12 UTC
The move followed my assistance*
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
29 Nov 12 UTC
redhouse, that's not my EoG, just direct responses to comments made so far in this thread.

As far as ending the game with the final draw vote, there were many reasons for me. One was that the pause of over a month tainted this game for me and I just wanted to move on with my life. Another, as sad as it is to admit, I needed to finish a game in the month of November to keep me on the current GR list, and I didn't want to play a live game because this one would drag on until December. I was leaving town for the week of Thanksgiving, my wife was pregnant, etc., etc., lots of stuff going on and I was ready for a break from this site. All that said, the main reason I hit draw when I did was because of England's misorder in that last season. If England had done what he said, I would have had two more units, you would have had two less, I could have put all my energy in the Balkans and Austrian home centers to deny Germany a solo, but not only did those two units tie my hands behind my back a bit, it showed me that England either was somewhat incompetent or was not engaged in the game, and regardless of which is true, if England is unwilling or unable to submit a simple support order, it didn't leave me feeling confident in my ability to stalemate Germany with England. I know you love to think of yourself as being very important to all things in this game, but the only reason I drew, in the end, was due to England's screw up. Sure, you could claim that you were helping Germany enough to force me to want a competent ally in order to stalemate Germany, but the overwhelming majority of people that play on this site can claim that. Also, I think England only voted draw to show me he was my ally, that he was not trying to kill me off or solo or anything like that, so, again, you claim you are responsible for the game ending in a draw, but in reality you had very little to do with it, other than you were still alive at that point, which is really just a coincidence.

I enjoy how proud you are of how you supplied moves to Mr. A. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Mr. A either didn't give a rats ass what you had to say or he was already planning to do what you suggested. I run across this quite a bit, people suggesting the obvious and then they think they are really smart, which just makes the advice annoying, but I digress. FTR, I'm confident I annoy others in this way quite a bit too, as I am somewhat decent at spotting the obvious.

As far as the army in Sev, the main reason I didn't use a fleet is because you were such a complete and utter ass that I wanted options since odds are that you would continue to be a complete and utter ass, which would ultimately result in us not being able to work together, so I needed to prepare for that likely possibility.

I hated playing with you and the game was, for the most part, one of the worst I have been involved with on this site, it was aweful. Cheers! :-)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Nov 12 UTC
Try to beat me Marx. :D
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
30 Nov 12 UTC
lol, I can't figure out if you're trying to push my buttons or if you are seriously that ignorant and unconscious... Either way, I am amused, well played!! :-)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
:-)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
Anger leads to the dark side..! ;-)
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
30 Nov 12 UTC
I suppose, eventually, but initially anger merely leads to hate.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
You can't beat me Marx. :P

And I believe it's not very classy of you to so aggressively deride a player who not only made it to the draw with only one SC less than you did, but who was at 12 SCs in an alliance with Germany who also had 12 SCs and whose strategic decision to stab me now proves to be as stupid and premature as I thought it would be when he did. You know what was an important reason for Germany to stab me? He made me commit to a two-way draw again and again, and he finally didn't believe I would live up to it. This really happened during a WTA. Hell I certainly did my fair share to propose ways to bilaterally end the alliance when we were both at 14/15 SCs and make runs for the solo but he wouldn't have it. I most certainly would have honored that agreement, I can tell you that.

I mean, despite its shortcomings that alliance had been producing net positive results for both partners during the last nine diplo years or something and it was a strategic blunder of Mr A not to persist this alliance until a point where him stabbing me would have led to a German solo with a greater certainty. *That's* the sequence of event that got you into the final cut Marx.

That being said, I did influence the board, why did you think France persisted in the game long past its expiration date? Why did you think Austria supported me into Prussia at the beginning? Did you talk to these guys a lot? Would you like me to reveal F/R press after 1904? France vexed Italy until the very last minute, exactly what I needed him to do.

Your invasion into Sev with an army was beyond pathetic. To think that you can just invade a country played by a player like me without mobilizing sufficient support or some kind of back up plan is another strategic blunder of the highest magnitude, particularly coming from someone like you, who should know better. I proved how incredibly dumb it was by taking Sev back within no-time and reducing the south-eastern theatre to a side show.

And then the comment about how things would have been different if England hadn't misordered. What do you think, that I didn't misorder during the game? That my going back and forth with my northern fleets was intentional? And do I claim my result would have been qualitatively different if I had? I'm way above that my friend.

You're a wuss, MadMarx, you're a hateful little player who can only act out of spite if something is being said or done during the game that he doesn't like and then attributes not only his meager result, but also the pleasure taken from the game to the fact that the opponent is an arrogant ass, rather than looking in the mirror and see if maybe, just maybe, you're a bit of an arrogant ass yourself. At least I have admitted that I am an arrogant ass and even apologized for it. I have a sense self-awareness that will allow me to beat you any time. I just need to pry on these cheap "cry baby look mummy redhouse is being mean to me" sentiments to draw your units to me so someone can take you from behind while you're hating on me.

Dixit.
BreathOfVega (597 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
I can't really understand why they say you're an ass, redhouse...
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
30 Nov 12 UTC
redhouse, you reap what you sow. I tend to sink to the level of my competition, if you're an ass to me, I try to be even more of an ass right back, though that's clearly a losing proposition for me when it comes to you. I've said this many times, I'm a reactionary player, I am nice to the people that are nice to me, and an ass to those that are and ass to me. I give what I am given. Think of me as a mirror, all that you despise in me is merely a reflection of yourself, and I suggest you start working on some of those shortcomings, posthaste if at all possible.
Yonni (136 D(S))
30 Nov 12 UTC
tldr; I'm rubber you're glue. Bounces off me and sticks to you.
Mapu (362 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
Redhouse, why are you lashing out at MadMarx? 2WL is the one who said you are a "terrible player".
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
30 Nov 12 UTC
To be fair, the more I think about it, the more 2WL's comment resonates with me... My main skill at this game is in the diplomacy, and it has served me quite well, so when you come across someone that is completely lacking in that department, regardless of whether or not that person has some skill in other aspects of the game, it is not incorrect to call that player terrible...
redhouse1938 (429 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
^It is if he keeps ending up in the draw Marxie-Marx.

tl;dr - You can't beat me :(
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
01 Dec 12 UTC
Okay, time for my EoG, I was Turkey:

I've never been real good with Turkey. In general, to start the game, my goal is to get a sense of each player's personality and to find a loyal long-term ally. I typically talk a lot, the more text I have to read, the better I am able to judge what sort of people I am playing against. Initial messages, to me, are not overly important, I just throw out a few thoughts and then keep up the conversation to see where it leads.

I'm not going to get into a ton of specifics, regarding press, but I will go through each season in an attempt to refresh my memory. I clearly played it safe in spring 1901, in regards to Russia, and it appeared that Italy stabbed Trieste, so I tried, and succeeded in getting Italian support into Serbia, great! I specifically remember Russia coming up with some very odd and specific agreements, something like "I won't attack Bul if you don't attack Sev" and even though Russia would follow through with agreements, the agreements didn't show much trust or much interest in allying with me.

Anyway, I'm guessing Italy didn't appreciate my fleet build, but I needed at least minimal defense for Aeg and East Med, and Greece was a pretty logical next conquest. Italy was still going at Austria, but Austria seemed more pissed at me than Italy, or maybe Austria's best bet was to take Bulgaria from me, so 1902 was a step backwards for sure, especially since Italy was allied with Russia and Italy was in East Med. For all intents and purposes I should have died relatively quickly, but luckily the Russian was suck a dick that I would hang on for much longer than I should have.

I don't remember at what point we had our pause that lasted at least a month, but I hate pauses, nearly as much as NMRs and CDs, it totally changed the game, and that bugs me, for whatever reason. I created this game in the hopes that it would be over by August, since I was planning on traveling to Italy mid-August and Greece in September, but the long pause last through my Italy trip, and I had lost all interest in the game, for right or wrong, I'm a reactionary player and thrive on reacting, so when nothing had been going on, I had no data to react to, but I digress.

There's not a whole lot more to say. I was stuck in my corner at that point, trying to ally with Italy or Russia, whoever would work with me. I did not enjoy Russia at all, but Italy was full of lies early on, so I didn't have any good options, but Italy was not an ass even though lying, while Russia was a complete and total ass while typically being relatively truthful, so I was hoping to ally with Italy long term since I much preferred him to the Russian.

England started to become a solo threat, and I stuck with Italy until Italy's death. Then Germany and Russia got large enough for England to stop coming my way, which gave me some strength to contend with the G/R. England and I attempted to break up the G/R, which it eventually broke down with Germany stabbing Russia (hmmm, wonder why Germany wanted to end his alliance with the Russian, probably due to the Russian's high draw percentage, lol!) and then it was just a matter of killing off the Russian, which in the end we didn't follow through on, the reasons for this I've already gone over. I was pretty happy for this game to end, it went on far too long.

Suppose I don't have too many more comments for individual players. I remember the German spoke with me very little early on, unless he wanted some info from me, which annoyed me a bit. The last several years of the game were mindnumbingly awful, Russia was the ass that he typically is, England and Germany would send one or two messages at most each phase, and typically not until the phase was about to roll over, the vibe in the game was miserable, nobody seemed to give a crap. I think I'm done with 48 hour phases, I had a good sense it was a bit too long for me, but this game was the final straw.
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
01 Dec 12 UTC
As far as redhouse being an ass, and happy to admit he is an ass, I have somewhat of a story to share that relates. I've played Edi Birsan a few times on this site, and I remember him being pretty adamant about diplomacy being a social game. Edi felt it would be rude to not send every person in the game a message every season. Edi carried himself with great class and respect for everyone else in the game. Now I would never claim to be anywhere close to Edi in those respects, as I've said, I'm unfortunately more than willing to lower my personal standards to those of the person I am interacting with. That said, I try very hard to be a relatively friendly sort with everyone in a game, at the beginning, and my interactions then take on a shape of their own. Now I'm not trying to say my way is right, or Edi's way is right, we all know that being an arrogant asshole the entire game can very well get you good results (even a draw percentage over 50%), but I don't personally think that is a decent way to play the game of diplomacy. People like redhouse, that are proud to be an ass to anyone and everyone all game long, obviously cannot be banned from webDip, but I have absolutely no interest in playing a game with that sort of person, ever, it's just not worth my time.
Mapu (362 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
It does seem like most press games eventually turn into GB games and I've done well, or better than I should have, in a number of them just by being the only one who seems to keep talking to most of the others.
Tasnica (3366 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
Never shutting up is a perfectly viable strategy! ;)
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
@Tasnica,

I assure you, I never shut up, despite the *infuriating* suggestion by MadMarx that I haven't kept up correspondence, while he has, and I can provide evidence that perhaps @LakersFan can support?

I kept talking to Austria and France long after any chance of them even surviving the game was long gone. In particular during France's hitch hike to southern Italy I was continuously corresponding with him.

I'll post one of Austria's (LakersFan) messages to myself here to prove that I was keeping up my correspondence with nations even though they were not doing well:

28 Jun 2012 Autumn, 1904: It was great playing with you. I am somewhat surprised at how badly I misread Italy, but those are the breaks I guess. Thanks for including me in your game (I am assuming you are MM at this point, just because you have been the thorough diplomat of anyone I have talked to in this game)
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
02 Dec 12 UTC
redhouse, I have never questioned the frequency of your messages, just the content (your content typically being very un-Edi-like)...
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
Haha you're putting an awful lot of energy in trying to establish that Marxie :-)
Imhotep (574 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
So here’s what I’ve got in terms of an EoG, although it’s not much. A quick summary of how the game went for me, and then a few opinions on what has come up in the thread so far (my misorder at the end, the pause/game pace, etc.).

Opening up the game, I’m pleased to see I’ve drawn England. Russia is very talkative and seems to have a lot up his sleeve, and when he suggests the Northern Triple it seems worth a shot, especially with Germany also coming off as friendly. France’s press is sparse, so I decide to roll with my northern neighbors and invade the Channel.

The triple goes solidly for a few years, but Germany has a couple minor instances in which he expresses distrust, especially towards me. For example, Russia and I overrule him in 1902 and I build an army, not a fleet; Germany is understandably unhappy and sends a rather long message condemning the decision as a disaster. For these reasons, and our good natural positioning, Russia and I begin discussing the possibility of squeezing Germany out the Triple.

At this point, I do drag my heels in engaging Germany. Russia throughout the game to this point (and in the future) gives off the sense that he has ulterior motives here. Of course, we all do, but I can’t shake the suspicion that he plans to turn Germany and I against each other and reap the benefits for himself. His plans for my “invasion” also seem rather speculative, suggesting one-center stabs and the like, so I decide to simply sit on it for a phase or two and get myself in better position. Russia seems rather upset by this, but the Triple is eventually restored and continues south.

I don’t want to belabor the narrative so I’ll wrap up the rest quickly: I expand, R/G call “solo threat” and attack, I repel. I do feel they could have prevented me from soloing while still allowing me to eliminate Turkey, ending the game in a Northern Triple three-way draw. However, once this “war” gets underway, I pull out of the Med and become pro-Turkey (although I do a shitty job of showing it; we’ll get to that later). I get Germany and Turkey talking to go after Russia, but my inattention in the Med (flipping the support order) forces me to put up my draw flag to appease Turkey, who fears I have other intentions. I come back to continue press with Turkey in the hopes we can mend our misunderstanding and punch out Russia (with Germany and I firmly on board) but he has already drawn. Oh well – I can’t complain, because it was pretty clearly my fault

Post-Game thoughts: I agree with all who have said the pause really killed the momentum this game had. I’m usually a very talkative player, but looking back I did a miserable job of communicating with some of the more distant/weaker powers. Usually I drop everything to reply to an in-game message; instead, I was giving myself reasons to come back to respond later. The most egregious example of this would be with Turkey, who as a neighbor of Russia obviously demanded more of my time and effort in keeping up relations. As for the misorder, I am going to plead “inattention,” though it is obviously for you all, not me, to judge my competence. Something in my brain just flip-flopped the names, and after so long I just apparently didn’t feel the need to double- and triple-check my inputs. I’m quite disappointed in myself for letting my attention wane that much towards the end – even if the game had deteriorated somewhat, you all deserved better from me.

All in all I found it fascinating playing with substantially more skilled and experienced players, and would love to play again with any of you if you’ll have me. I’ve probably missed some points here so feel free to bring up anything I did, stupid or otherwise, that you have questions about.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
^Refreshing


47 replies
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Dec 12 UTC
Please join me in welcoming jmo1121109 as our newest Admin
Congratulations, jmo.
70 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Dec 12 UTC
Most Amazing Thing That Happened in the NFL Today
Fuck the Seahawks. Fuck the Colts. It's the fuckin Chiefs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/photos/kansas-city-chiefs-take-to-field-in-wake-of-tragedy-slideshow/
1 reply
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
Sunday, Fun day
You wake up in an alternate world where you never signed up for webdip. Anxious to join, you make an account. What is the first noob question you ask on the forums and will be associated with in the minds of old timers?
10 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
Top 10 Cities and Locales in the Anglosphere?
Just thought I'd throw this one out there...
Taking the four most obvious nations (the US, UK, Canada and Australia) and anywhere else you see fitting in the primarily-English speaking world (not "primarily," as of course there are many Spanish speakers in the US and many French Canadians, but the nations' overall aggregate majority is titled towards an English language/culture, I think)...best cities and locations?
62 replies
Open
demmahom (100 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
World Diplomacy IX Supply centers needed to win
How many supply centers are needed to win World dip IX? I mean, in a normal game it's 18 SC's, but in a world dip game I'm playing, this country has around 35 centers. So I was wondering, how many do you need?
12 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
02 Dec 12 UTC
Best and worst US airports
The Hanged Man raised an interesting topic in the other thread. What are the best and US airports. Focus on major ones, but feel free to include a few small ones you love or hate.
31 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Dec 12 UTC
EOG: My Pizza's Here
It's funny because my pizza actually showed up after I created the game, but you know…
7 replies
Open
viejo (100 D)
16 Nov 12 UTC
Partidas en español
Para los jugadores que quieran jugar partidas en español, os dejo el enlace a un nuevo servidor basado en webdip, donde vamos ampliando la comunidad:
http://www.webdiplomacy.com.es/
Os esperamos TAMBIÉN allí
6 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
30 Nov 12 UTC
Replacements needed for Around the World Map Gunboat Tournament
Taos has bailed due to lack of Internet. We need one or more players to step up to take his games. Please post interest here and how many you're willing to take.
39 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
29 Nov 12 UTC
Just Because the Catholic Church Hadn't Fouled Up ENOUGH In the Public Eye...
...Ratzenberg decided to open his gob and spew some more lies and hate.
http://www.care2.com/causes/pope-decides-gay-people-arent-fully-developed-humans.html
Please...even if you believe in Catholicism...if you believe THIS Pope is in any way holy, nice, or good...why?
44 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
Presidential Succession Hypothetical
Since Obama still has to actually be elected by the Electoral College still for his second term, I got to thinking about how a terribly timed resignation may screw stuff up very badly for the country someday in the future.
13 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Dec 12 UTC
vDip NOOOOO
It's dead. Won't load. Ahh. Life. Love. Happiness. They're all gone. Noooooooo………
13 replies
Open
Hulk2013 (100 D)
02 Dec 12 UTC
join 12hr classic
this game is a 12hr phase classic diplomacy game. it has a 10 buy in. please join 5 more spots.
0 replies
Open
bropoleon (100 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
Suggestion
Get rid of the option to block messages. The game is called DIPLOMACY. You need to be able to create alliances with other players. That's why there is a diplomacy phase!
15 replies
Open
Vilkas (211 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
The natural outcome of a dip game is a draw
It's either a 3-way draw, or possibly 4-way, depending on the alliances. If a solo occurs, than it's because one of the players made a mistake.
Discuss
17 replies
Open
Nikeshox (100 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
replacement needed
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=104715&msgCountryID=0&rand=4819#chatboxanchor
0 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
Join John Jinggleheimer Jamerheimer Smith's Wintacular Extravaganza!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha lol rotflmao. MODS ARE AWESOME THEY'RE GREAT DRAUGNAR THINKS THEIR STUPID KRELLIN DOES NOT EXIST CONGO EAT PEOPLE DOWN THERE WHO'S NEW GUY IS HE KNEW THUCY CAN'T RUN A COMPETITION OBI CANTS BE CONCISE DON'T EXPECT A MESSAGE FROM ME TIL TOMORROW JMO GO AUSTRIA FUCK KENYA CONGO
14 replies
Open
surfdudeken03 (114 D)
01 Dec 12 UTC
A quick game for beginners
Come join "With the Quickness"
0 replies
Open
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