Why do you ask this question?

How would the person in this scenario let France into Ruhr? if he wasnt in Ruhr I would build 2 fleets and an army, since he is in ruhr, I would build A kiel A Munich and F Berlin.

And in response, I'd build a fleet in Kiel because it can go either direction. I might build a fleet in Berlin, but I feel like that would make Russia hesitant to back down. An army in Munich, obviously, and hopefully your Belgian army and that one can at least contest Burgundy and keep France off of you until Italy inevitably jumps him. If Russia has any reason to back off of you, it will be from Turkey, at which point Italy has no reason to fear the juggernaut anymore and can spare that move.

So for me, A Munich, A Berlin, and F Kiel. The Berlin unit depends on your confidence in who will turn first between Russia and England.

"...while France has A Ruh, A Spa, F MAO and two builds" - I think this is not possible. Which is the second build?

SD is also correct.

I didn't read terribly deep I guess. Nice going, guys.

F Por most probably.

Lets assume F Portugal.

I would do the same builds as bo_sox for the following reasons (much like his): The fleet in Kiel can go either way, depending on who you want to dissuade the most. A Ber can be used to cover Munich while Mun move to Bur in the spring and Bel moves to Ruhr with support from Holland (Or Ber can cover Kiel while Bel is supported to Ruhr from Mun and Hol. The obvious choice for a SC to lose is Belgium. Anything else is too close to your home SC's and gives your enemies a huge advantage over you. DEN would allow England access to the Baltic and Hol....i don't even know how you'd lose Hol. I'd likely give Sweden away to Russia and hope for pressure from the south and support F Kiel to Hel with F Den. This would give you excellent defense against England and can be used to barter with France to have him turn on his English allies once the attack stalls out.

Sorry, F Por, yes. Also this is a purely hypothetical question amd not tied to any game. Just trying to pose some unique thread to the forum for anyone to post to.

I have the tendency to build like SD since armies definitely blockade France but fleets don't necessarily do that. how do you all anticipate England and France would move in S02?

Also, @ Achillies-there's no rhyme or reason other than it means Germany has more of a chance with 3 builds but sets up more of a tense situation. A Bur isn't as threatening.

What builds do you expect out of E and F? What spring moves would you expect from them to make you move the way you posted?

Surely in Autumn '01 France would only have 1 build if they had units in Spain, Ruhr & MAO

IMHO France and Germany over-commit resources to their Franco-German border but if they can agree to share and support hold Belgium/Holland early on and DMZ Burgundy it's very difficult to beat. Germans can go claim Scandinavia and hold off Russia. The French can attack both England and Italy.

I meant the fleet moves to Por, for starters, and the conversation is about how you would move and build and whatyou assume your opponents would do.

"You already know that all 3 are coming for you"

What you do is curse yourself for failing utterly in the early stages of diplomacy, and hope like hell that circumstances save your arse because it's mostly out of your hands. Do what you can to keep your units alive (the mechanics of this is not all that important. Second guessing how the enemy will attack is hard enough at the best of times, but when it's early in the game and you've obviously not connected with any of them you might as well just roll a dice), talk like mad to everyone to try and change things as soon as possible, and pray that one or more of the people attacking you is an idiot.

To keep up morale you could always make bets with Austria about which of you will die first :)

But in the meantime you still move your pieces and base those moves on what you see is on the board currently. The point of this "exercise" is based on the notion that different people would handle a situation differently. Bo_sox has one fleet build while goldfinger has two. This could very well be a real scenario and sometimes you don't have a lot in the way of press other than the knowledge that if you defend yourself long enough, someone will back down. I've had past successes as Russia and France, so I'm posing the question to the community.

I would build fleet Berlin and two armies in order to try to secure Sweden for myself without risking Denmark. Bel is expendable but 3 armies are needed to lock down the French border.

I appreciate it could be a real scenario and different people will handle it in a variety of ways, but my point is it doesn't really matter all that much what you build or (within reason) what you do with them. Communication dominates in this situation, and your actions will be led almost entirely by what you hear. There is no ideal strategy to get out of this sort of mess.

"sometimes you don't have a lot in the way of press other than the knowledge that if you defend yourself long enough, someone will back down"

I'm not aware that I've ever come across a situation where this is accurate. I've often hoped it is the case, and occasionally it has been, but I've never come close to knowing.

I've been in situations in the past where players will state honestly that they won't back down, even when there's a reasonable offer. It's not the norm by far but they are out there. One scenario I had Italy, Turkey and Russia coming down on me and I heard nothing from Turkey, a statement from Italy only saying that we can't currently work things out and Russia saying basically the same thing. In these situations, where your press isn't immediately effective, you have to pick a target, work to stalemate that one guy, and hope he breaks and you have to use assumptions and common sense to predict his builds to counter and move based on where you think that one guy will go.

In the germany situation, some people might feel stalemating France is easier, others try for England. You can only use press when the other guy will be receptive. It doesn't mean you stop talking, but it does mean that you'll get nowhere for a while. Hence my theoretical question.

I hate it when people play like that, one game I was Austria and turkey and Russia were allied, except Russia had like 6 more SCs then turkey... We had to work together but he just wouldn't.

To clarify, Tru, I meant only one fleet build, and that in Kiel. Based on your parameters I would screw any chances that an army from War would come over in the spring (though its remotely possible) and make the following priorities

1)Destroy or force A Ruhr to retreat.
2) Stalemate English advance
3) Stalemate French advance
4) Hope and pray things go to shit in the south for Russia while doing 1, 2, and 3.

As for builds and moves, I suppose F Edi or something of the sort from England, F Brest, A Par, A Mar from France. Russia would build A St. Petes, A Moscow

Now are we assuming Italy can't help or not?

If we're all on our own I say forget trying to defend Sweden. England will likely support Russia to Sweden from GoB, and Russia will move St. Petes to Finland and (perhaps) Moscow to St. Petes. England will hold Norwegian where it is (or move to Clyde or NAO actually that I think about it) while moving North to Ska or Hel. To counter this, F Den moves to Ska, and F Kiel moves to Hel. France will move to the Channel, A Par to Pic, and A Mar to Bur, so I will concentrate on eliminating Ruhr and moving A Ber to cover Kiel.

That's the easy scenario. vanilla. The "Shiit I'm gonna die" scenario would feature Russia building in Warsaw, moving GoB to Baltic, War to Pru, England taking Sweden, moving Norwegian to Norway, and supporting Ruhr to Holland. That would create utter, utter chaos and Germany would be dead in two years, 3 years tops no matter what you do.