What Vaft said. JDip conforms to the DATC and can be used to run F2F games or test scenarios.

Much obliged, this is exactly what i had in mind.

I use this: http://gamesbyemail.com/Games/Politics/Judge

That is a website. I find it very useful.

If you want something similar to jDip you can also try Realpolitik: http://realpolitik.sourceforge.net/

Does anyone know the differences between jDip and Realpolitik?

I use RealPolitik it takes some gettimg used to, but its good.

I thought I remember something funny with jdip where if you put in a support order that shouldn't work, but you enter it as text, it doesn't detect it is invalid. Anyone else remember that?

If you install the webdip-software on your local computer the Admin can switch between the different accounts with a single mouseclick.
So you can all give him the commands and it's easy and fast to process. With a beamer to display the map on the table (bit complicated, but works) a wall or TV it's really good.

@sleepcap: installing webdip locally is a pain compared to jdip (you need a webserver, php, mysql, and webdip instead of just a simple standalone client)

That said, i don't use jdip in f2f games, i've never come across a situation i couldn't adjudicate...

Yeah, and if you do have second thoughts, or just want to test out different sets of orders when things get quite complicated, you can just go to that website (http://gamesbyemail.com/Games/Politics/Judge). I don't think you can actually progress to the next turn there, just see the results of phase you are testing, but I don't know if that's much of a problem.

I wrote my own that should run on most Android devices:
http://littledipper.co.cc/

Much better than Realpolitik for testing ideas as it gives instant feedback rather than having to process the orders.

@orathaic, while you can adjudicate, sometimes you have to convince someone that their understanding is wrong. If you just plop it into jdip and have jdip adjudicate it, then it is easier to get that person to accept that they aren't understanding the rules properly.

And yes, jdip is much easier to use than webdip. But webdip really isn't too hard. I use wamp which includes the webserver, php, and mysql all in one package. Then I just had to configure webdip and run through the multiple install.sql files and I was up and running. It was much easier than I expected, which is good because I'm not a web application developer.

Palmpolitic was made for ftf. You enter your orders on your palm and then sync it infrared with realpolitik. Of course it needs an update for wifi with smartphones.

SunZi: Your website was blocked by my anti-virus software. Are you sure you put the right URL?

But I guess it's sort of like the "Politics Order Judge"?

Yes, the URL is correct. None of my security programs raise any flags and my best guess is that your scanner is overly paranoid of the URL forwarding used by co.cc.

Try the forum directly at:
http://www.littledipper.freemybb.com

and/or download the program from getjar:
http://getjar.com/littledipper

It's basically a diplomacy judge and sandbox a lot like Realpolitik but with a better interface, DATC compliant resolution and designed to run on Android. Only the standard game is available so far but I'll get around to variants eventually.

SunZi: Yeah, ha ha. I haven't seen that ending before, I think. (By the way, I looked up the .cc domain and it's meant for a population of a little over 600 people, ha ha.)

But yeah, I read the forum posts. It looks like you have a very interesting program! I'll download it and test it out directly. (I don't think GetJar will work for me since I'm out of the country where my phone is based.)

Great program, SunZi! I just tried it out. Are you still thinking about imporving it?

Yes, I'm hoping to improve it some more though I'm not sure when I'll have time. Any suggestions?

Well, one thing I like about the Politics Order Judge is that you can create and test your own scenarios. See the "Clear board":
http://GamesByEmail.com/Games/Politics/Judge#

I also liked how you mentioned including different DATC resolutions as options.

Both of those sound very hard though, ha ha. But seriously, great job!

Yes, very nice App! Good way of using the TouchScreen. A little bit as in RealPolitik.

Is the algorithm based on my article of the Diplomatic Pouch? Or did you something else?

Lucas Kruijswijk

@ Lucas Kruijswijk, your name is very similar to the one mentioned in the credits of jDip.

Can i ask you why the Punic Sea on the ancient map is seen by jDip as an inland province? Is it easy for me to fix it?

@Victorious. I am the creator of the DATC and I wrote an article in the Diplomatic Pouch, how to make a perfect adjudicator.

For that reason, I am mentioned in several credits (also for this site). But I don't further details about jDip.

Regards,

Lucas

@JECE
I'll include a "clear board" option in the next version.

@lkruijsw
Yes, the algorithm is based on your "simple recursive guess algorithm that works in all cases". Thank you very much for efforts.

Nice to hear that my work is used!

Lucas

@SunZi,

Is the source code to your Little Dipper program available somewhere?

Have you considered getting it added to the Android marketplace or posting the source on GitHub?

@yebellz
Sorry, I haven't posted the source code anywhere yet. I may eventually get it up on souceforge but not in the near future. As for Android marketplace I definitely won't be uploading the software anywhere that charges me money. Is Getjar a problem for you?

@SunZi - I've been thinking about doing some dabbling in Android development (I hate the alarm clocks that are out there right now and have an idea for a better one that works like the wake-to-music function of a traditional clock-radio. Is there somewhere I should go to download a toolkit for Android development? I assume it's in Java and, while I'm Java 2/JDK 1.4 certified, I haven't screwed with it an a few years.

Sorry, just reinstalled my system and I can't find a link to a good tutorial right now but there are several online. Basically you will need the Java SDK from Sun, the Android SDK from Google and an IDE like Eclipse to program with.

@ LK,

Ok. Well done at least :)

Lucas: Ha ha, talk about being used! Your DATC is used everywhere. It's an amazing document. In case you weren't aware, http://gamesbyemail.com/Games/Politics/Judge looks like it probably used your suggestions as well; it at least links to all your tests.

@JECE I am aware of the success of the DATC. All the adjudicators are of much higher quality then before 2000.

But I was curious whether my algorithm that I described in the Diplomatic Pouch, wad used. That is much more recent then the DATC and there is always a chance that some brilliant mind comes with something better. But the algorithm starts to become the standard also. It is also used by playdiplomacy.

I also follow all the choices made in new adjudicators. There are only two issues where the modern adjudicators differ. Convoying to adjacent places and coasts in support orders. So, pretty good.

Lucas

What's the differences, Lucas? I ask because while coastal convoys have arguably a problem in resolving whether or not the unit moves if the convoy is disrupted and, of course, the issue of hijacked units convoyed when they weren't intended to be, the rules are pretty clear on coastal supports. They state that a unit can support another unit to or in any province to which it could move, regardless of coast. It's in the rules so there can be no question about it.

Lucas: "In case you weren't aware" was the beginning of a new sentence. I'm sure you would be aware of the success of the DATC.

By the way, I was poking around "The Math of Adjudication" when I found a reference to DipTool (http://www.hagenah.de/diptool/). Is that a program similar to jDip and Realpolitik?

@Draugnar, about the coastal support. A fleet in the Black Sea can support a fleet both to east coast and south coast. There is no doubt about that. However, the opinions differ (and also the implementations), whether the coast must be specified in the support order. For playing with the computer, this is not so big issue, because you are forced by the computer to follow the implementation of the computer. However, in case of FtF, this is more important. If coastal specification is required, then it means the support is invalid if coast is omitted (something that can not happen with the computer). That is why I prefer that coast specification is not required, but must match if specified.

@Draugnar. Prefer the first issue to call 'convoy to adjacent places'. The 2000/2008 rules specify the use of 'via convoy', but this is not implemented by all programs, such as Stabberfou and I see also Little Dipper. I can understand that, because it is quite a work to implement.

If you require 'via Convoy', then you have the issue what to do if the convoy is not given. The implementations differ on this matter. If you see as just a preference to go by Convoy, then the land route is taken. But if you see it as a must, then the move should fail.

So, the adjudicators are not entirely consistent on this issue. But, still the situation is much better then before 2000.

Lucas

@JECE Given the discussion I had with Christian Hagenah, I know it is a quite a decent tool. But I never used it, so you have to try by yourself. I think the adjudicator is slightly better than jDip. jDip is DATC tested, but there are some bug reports, and it seems that the adjudicator is not entirely stable (but don't worry about it, the chance to hitting such case is quite small).

RealPolitik was made before 2000. The adjudicator is quite good (certainly for that time) but is not entirely perfect. Again, the chance of hitting such case, is pretty small.

Lucas