"Can you give us a translation" - Yes, please?

I tried watching the BBC TV version of Claudius, I got about 10 minutes in, it was terrible. But I could see reading it as a book to be quite enjoyable.

Speaking of books, anybody ever read Larteguy's Algerian War trilogy?

smcbride1983: I, Claudius is THE best series about ancient Rome. Don't bother with the book, watch the series. A perfect combination of a soap opera and a crash course on the first four emperors.

I particularly enjoy the sequel, "You, Agrippina."

If you feel brave enough, you could pick Tacitus, the source material of Graves. He isn't as entertaining, but immensely more elegant, truthful and perceptive.

Putin, I have not read the Algerian War Trilogy, is it fiction or non fiction? And by translation do you mean, what the hell is it about? Zmaj, should I read it in Latin :)?

I don't know I was rather fond of HBO's Rome.....But I do need to go back a watch I, Claudius

I am actually having a reading competition with my brother and a friend. The first book was The satanic Verses, followed by I,Claudius, The Forever War, Th master and margarita, The Magus, and The doors of Perception. The first to finish gets 40 bucks.

I read the Forever War comic. It had some quite original ideas.

The Master and Margarita is hugely overrated, mostly because Westerners don't understand it's an updated, watered-down version of Gogol.

The Magus - is it any good?

The Doors of Perception: blah.

Smcbride - It is fiction, based on the Guerre d'Algerie, although the first book takes place in Indochina also. And yes that is what I meant by translation, as I can't get passed the writing style and plethora of Indianisms which are never defined.

"I, Claudius" and "Claudius the God" are the only two fictional books I've read in the last fifteen years. Great stuff. The TV series was one of the greatest TV shows of all time IMHO, although the production values were certainly quite primitive compared to what we would expect today.

Both fascinating and amusing to compare the Brian Blessed Augustus and the Simon Wood/Max Pirkis Augustus/Octavian from Rome. I don't think there have ever been two more contrary portrayals of the same character in the history of film/television.

I, Claudius is on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr1oJj0Iivw

@smcbride1983:The Forever War by Joe Haldeman? Epic story (just avoid the follow-ons, they're rubbish).

Thanks Speaker, I will avoid them. Tolstoy, that link is golden, and you are now my favorite Count. Putin,I am not a literary critic, but I would say it is a criticism of popular culture, religion, and morality. I am sure that is not helpful :)

So, I have finally made some headway in I, Claudius. It took me a while to get going, but it is starting to pick up. The style takes a little getting used to, in my opinion, because, it is written in the first person and in the style of a diarist. He also jumps around chronologically, which is slightly annoying. So far, I think that Livia is a raging bitch, and Augustus is almost impotent, if Claudius's account is accurate. It also opens up a part of Roman history that I have not learned much about, and that is the day to day activities of the Roman patricians. So far it is a pretty good read.

It is a damn good read,& I found it also a book I enjoyed re reading
i much prefer Robert Graves than Gibbon's Decline & Fall series of books,
I'va had a bash at a few of them

Zmaj, I had (I seem to have lost it) Tacitus' book, it was good but the translators did warn that he did have his prejudices.

Has anyone read Scullard's From the Gracchi to Nero? I have it, but haven't got around to reading it yet.

Also, I did like HBO's Rome (though the portrayal of Egypt was horrendous).

What was wrong with the portrayal of Egypt?

Egypt at the time should have looked more like Greece considering it had been conquered by Alexander the Great and was being ruled by a Greek dynasty. However in the show it looked like the Egypt under Ramses II.

Actually the Ptomaic Greeks really got into Egyptian culture, copying New Kingdom styles and synthesizing Greek religion with Egyptian. I have read that even experts find it hard to distinguish art works from Ptolmaic Egypt from the New Kingdom period. The series Rome might not be as wrong as you think.

Huh, is that so? I'd always thought that portrayal was wrong. Do you know any online resources I could read regarding this?

My source is a lecture series I have on the History of Egypt by Professor Bob Brier which I listened to last year, and I remembered him talking about it. I'll see if I can come up with a supporting link.

These aren't the best links, but they at least touch on the subject.

http://www.touregypt.net/alexhis1.htm

 In return, Egypt enriched their lives as the new rulers absorbed their adopted culture. Egypt had enchanted the Ptolemies, as it had all its foreign rulers before them. Ptolemy and his descendants adopted Egyptian royal trappings and added Egypt's religion to their own, worshipping the gods of Eternity and building temples to them, and even being mummified and buried in sarcophagi covered with hieroglyphs.

http://www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk/art/ptolemaic.html

It is often hard to distinguish, whether works were produced in the 30th Dynasty or in the early Ptolemaic Period. Later there develops a mixed Hellenistic-Egyptian style, which becomes very common in the Roman Period.

Ah, interesting. Do you know how the soldiers were armed/armoured/dressed? Because again they looked pretty classical and I can understand that while art and architecture may have been influenced, I find it difficult to believe they would have changed the military just to fit their aesthetic tastes (though it is obviously possible).

I don't know about the soldiers and guards, but the Ptolemies did try to present themselves as Pharaohs. The funny thing is the New Kingdom was already ancient even to the Greeks, but the Ptolemies were very impressed. If you think about though, there is something awe-inspiring about Egypt. I am not saying they went totally native, but the influence was pronounced. I am no expert though. I am only half-rembering the Bob Brier lecture series. But he did talk about a New Kingdom style revival under the Ptolemies. I'll have to listen to the lectures on Ptolemeic Egypt again, but I think Brier might have even mentioned the tv series Rome (either him or another TTC professor). It got kudos for authenticity - style wise (keeping in mind it was just a tv series), even if the history was bollocks (they had to make it fit into a tv drama after all).

Do remember that Alexander conquered Egypt in the 4th century BC, and Cleopatra ruled in the 1st century BC. That's 300 years. 300 years is a looong time for cultures to change and adapt - heck, American culture of just 40 years ago is considered so alien and strange today that someone was able to make a comic TV show out of it.

Consider also that historians don't spend a whole lot of time writing about contemporary fashion. It's really difficult to know - especially in ancient times - exactly how people dressed and what kind of art was in vogue in any particular year if all you're looking at are the ramblings of the historians of the time. If you look at medieval depictions of ancient warfare, for instance, you will notice that all of them - even the roman legionaries - were shown in medieval/renaissance paintings and tapestries wearing medieval/renaissance armor and weapons.

@ smcbride1983

i hunted about & found my copy of Claudius the God by Robert Graves, but could i find my copy of I Cludius, no, so i called at a cool secondhand bookshop in Adelaide today
& picked up a copy of I Claudius & a copy of Greek Myths 1 by Robert Graves & two CS Forester Hornblower novels. one of my two nieces appropriated the greek myths so she can read it during the week.

i have to finish my Spatial info assignment about 75% writing done 98% research done
& start I Claudius, but i am sulking after only getting 8 minutes of a possible 70 minutes "on the field" last week end & am not going to play hockey this weekend
plus it's been raining really heavily last few days, Parawa, about 20 km away got 60 mm in 24 hrs, & i reckon a good 50 mm or 2 inches came down where i am in the same 24 hrs

cold & wet, i'll stay at the shack & work on my SIS stuff & make a start on I Claudius.
but tonight i cannot resist a peek into " Hornblower goes to Sea"
& wait for a retreat to time out - another half hour

Nice, Have you read I, Claudius before? I am just about done, and it reminds me of a John Lecarre novel. It is just rampant with espionage. I have enjoyed the heck out of it so far.

I've read I CLAVDIVS and CLAVDIVS THE GOD several times. I like the way in which Graves has managed to make his characters rounded, and mostly to have believable motives for their various acts.

The weakest parts of the books are the Herod Agrippa subplot, which doesn't add anything imho to the overall story, and was probably included to pad out the second volume.

Given the choice, I would rather reread Le Carre's Smiley trilogy though...

Those books are on my list. Gonna read them soon.

Alas, I have finished "I,Claudius." I enjoyed the book thoroughly. Graves definitely picks and chooses the history that he wants to develop his characters, but I think he does so very skillfully. I really felt the craziness of Caligula and the paranoia of Tiberius. I detested Livia, even after she and Claudius made amends.
If anyone is interested I am starting Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov.

What, you're not reading "Claudius The God" next?

In a Reading competition with some friends. It is not on the list. I did buy it at a book fair and plan on reading it soon.