Claim that your not a jack@&' but that your just taking devils advocate and that you are mutually enlightening each other

You are such a tool Putin. I am simply saying that your arguements are not exactly 'correct' either. Ever heard "The victors write the history books'? Same holds true in your Utopia of North Korea.

Your deep, orgasmic love for communism baffles me, as does others unbridaled admiration of 'democracy'.

Haha... yes Putin....
That could seem to be touching both me and Stressedlines in the Korea debate, though I am your "tactical ally" in this one and Stressed your (our) foe.

Really Sir Lines... Has Putin really claimed that Korea is a utopia? I cannot see that actually. That would have been if he had strictly denied any problems in N Korea or made claims that it is a harbinger of peace to the western world or something.
I can only see that he is defending the NK regimes way of addressing the problems of their nation.
I cannot claim to know much about the issue. (Probably less than Stressedlines) What I DO know something about is the methods and mental character of our western media and the popular fairytale description of the world.

Sylence, he just goes to the other side of the debate as fast he can, throws up strawman after strawman, without anything to back it up usually, and when he does, and you dispute it, he gets all upset.

I am saying 'utopia' very tongue and cheek though. It is a word communists love to use, and I am just using it for him.

I have no personal opinions on the matter at all, but I think that what Putin says is absolutely true. It's a classic way to maintain the appearance of objectivity, and in an anonymous forum, people rely on it to lend credibility to their arguments.
But again, I really don't know one way or another and believe both sides have equal merit.

"...he just goes to the other side of the debate as fast he can, throws up strawman after strawman"

Well, I think Putin had an idea here when he started this thread...

He "goes to the other side... as fast as he can...".
That is a way (and the only way?) of responding to people who will deny that they actually, in their everyday life, ARE loyal to one side and want to have the booty without dirtying their hands.
It is easy to say "I don't like what the American government is doing. Respect me for this" without drawing a line to give some edge to what you mean, always returning home to your shell when put to a challenge (such as North Korea represents)

Aah... I think this actually what our *Democracy* most comes down to. We have the right to speak whatever and have any opinions at all, simply because it matters not a whit.

The "strawmen" Putin throws up, I suppose they can be analyzed as the opinions you should have if you are true to your own interests, "class interests" perhaps, or simply as an American/European citizen.

The Europeans are the worst hypocrites in this respect when the claim they don't like the US "methods", while still riding the gravy train drawn by the US locomotive.

If I understand jmeyersd comment right... Yeah... Even if all Putin says is pure truth it doesn't mean we want the world to turn into North Korea.

You guys really lack context from previous interactions with Putin. He's literally argued that every fault anyone on the forum has ever raised about North Korea (and boy have we raised many) is due to Western jackassery, basically. You're giving him entirely too much credit.

PE has been pouty & mad ever since I said Ron Paulies pal around with neo-Nazis. Now he takes everything personally and has skin as thick as a cracker. In this case he's mad because he likes to criticize without ever putting his own positions out on the line, which is the case with many people here. What he calls "straw men" is him trying to dodge the smallest inkling of accountability for his own ideology. In PE's world, everybody is their own Pope, who gets to sanctimoniously condemn everything and everyone while having never proposed any realistic alternative about how to do anything.

It's easy to be morally pure when you have unworkable political opinions, or incoherent political opinions. The only reason you take these positions is to make yourself look good on a forum, so you can brag about 1) how moderate you are or 2) how you don't 'support' anybody or anything that actually had to do the 'dirty' work of governing. Heaven forbid.

It's easy to carry out the Kommissarbefehl if you have spent time arguing wif putty.

Luv u :)

Putin, I never detailed my position, nor was mine under attack. I was simply pointing out the flaw in yours. Just because I do not agree with your position, does not automatically mean I agree with one you disagree with.

No kidding, you made an absurd assertion without backing it up and then claimed I didn't back up my counterargument, and was somehow maligning you because your assert ignored basic historical facts.

which facct? that south kroeans are taller? that they live longer? that the North started the war? That Josef and Mao killed millions more than the South Korean president? Must I actually provide stats, so you can go running off at the mouth about the 'sources'? No matter what source I put up there, you will claim the source is corrupt, and false, blah blah.

"that the North started the war?"

Yes that one in particular. The red herrings I'm not interested in.

"Must I actually provide stats, so you can go running off at the mouth about the 'sources'? "

The barest support would be a start. But I know I'm putting you out here. But continue claiming I didn't support my arguments while making excuses for why you don't have to support yours. Continue with the snarky one-liners.

All of that is much easier.

"PE has been pouty & mad ever since I said Ron Paulies pal around with neo-Nazis. Now he takes everything personally and has skin as thick as a cracker. In this case he's mad because he likes to criticize without ever putting his own positions out on the line, which is the case with many people here. What he calls "straw men" is him trying to dodge the smallest inkling of accountability for his own ideology. In PE's world, everybody is their own Pope, who gets to sanctimoniously condemn everything and everyone while having never proposed any realistic alternative about how to do anything."

I lol'd and +1ed the shit out of it

Who crossed the 38th and started it? For me, it does not matter. It was a korean affair, that turned into something else. I served in Korea, and was a English Teacher there also, and an exchange student there, so I have some knowledge of the South for sure.

the north HEAVILY outnumbered the south. It was not even close. They drove them all the way past Daegue, and into the port city of Pusan.

In what book are you finding that the South started the war? other than the silly border skirmishes (which still go on today), in WHAT book does it say "the South launched a full scale invasion of the north"?

Really, I must see this book.

DO I agree how the Korean nations were split? Sure I dont. However, that is something neither of us can change. The questino you are disputing is 'did thenorth start the war'/

If you really must make me post one of the 13 million links I found jsut googling the topic, I will post them, but you can easily google the same as me.

I want to see yours.