yes

Not sure about The Socialist Party, but I can't see how 'Socialism' as a political term could promote family owned farms (maybe a consortium of families). I'm pretty tired of people taking a power structure model like 'socialism' or 'capitalism' and stating that things would be best if that single power structure model was applied to all aspects of life.

I'm a socialist when it comes to police, fire department, national security, clean environment/food, education, transportation infrastructure. I'm a capitalist when it comes to art, entertainment and toys, luxury goods and foods. I think some things fall in-between and the government run/free market should be decided on a case by case basis like health care. I think some industries should start off government run and be migrated as quickly as possible to the free market - like space exploration, and most science research.

I guess my point is that these labels we put on power models should represent political tools we use to solve problems and promote welfare, not philosophies we buy into whole-heartily as some kind of cure-all dogma. - sorry almost got ranty there... I think you get my point.

The short answer is "it depends on what you think you're joining"

There is plenty to critisize about the current political and economic system. There is also plenty to critisize about just about any socialist political and economic system, both the theoretical models and those that have been implemented.

If you've looked at a few points on their platform and think "gee, I agree with some of this, therefore they represent me", I submit you can look at a few points on *anyone's* political platform and find things you agree with.

Example: The GOP states they are in favor of "personal responsibility". That's a hard thing to argue against - who is going to say they're *against* taking responsibility for your own life?

It's a normal phase that most people go through. I considered myself a communist when I was in junior high school (and got beaten up a few times for it - this was during the Reagan years). Obviously I got over it, though.

Socialism and socialists generally have a noble end goal and commendable intentions. The problems come up when you try and figure out how to get there from here.

No.

Good god....his primary, specific reason is "family farming".....<sigh...> Yeah....isn't it horrible that corporations have taken over farming, implemented techniques and technologies that have *massively* increased farm productivity such to the point that nobody (other than for political reasons) need ever go hungry again?

Hell...I suppose you are against large automotive companies mass producing cars, too? And, you know, those damned grocery stores that eliminate roadside vegetable stands and butcher shops suck, too. And while we're at it, will you please remove and throw away your Nike tennis shoes, or Adidas or New Balance or whatever corporate shoe you are wearing which you purchased very cheaply, and instead go pay some exorbitant price to a cobler?

You are an idiot and a hypocrite.

Someone is on a rant today.

>socialism in an agrarian society

Let me sum up this topic:
"Is wanting to join the socialist party at any point in life normal?"
"yes"
"No."

There we go, we've explored all avenues of thought here, so the topic is done.

No...
Oh no...
GOD GOD NO...

*Trumpet sounds as the horde of krellin, Santa, and, to be sure, eventually Putin and Co. swarm in to have another pointless debate on socialism*

Now.

Who'd like to have an equally-tired debate on God, because, hey, socialism ad God, its not like we haven't covered these topics to fucking death to the point where really you can pretty much just run the whole argument in your head complete with what every last fucking person here will say...

Right?

@kalelchase well spoken
@airborne what do you mean by normal?
i think that not wanting to join a socialist party in any phase of your life is not normal
and life is not black or white ,capitalism and family farms can work together ,if you joined the socialist party because you want to conserve the family farm sistem and you think its the way,so go for it.
you may like this link: http://www.themeatrix.com/

It's good to be interested, and I salute you for it. I hope someday soon you will be a comrade in the struggle.

As far as self-proclaimed socialist organizations/"parties" go, SPUSA leaves much to be desired, especially under its current leadership. If you want a rundown of the byzantine maze that is left groups in the US, let me know. I'm not going to discuss it publicly.

There is nothing wrong at all. However, IMO, you would be better off reading about socialism first before joining a party. They may have ideas you disagree with.
marxists.org has a lot of great stuff on socialism.

Party websites typically have a statement of principles and whatnot also. I'm sure he's read the SP website.

Marxists.org is heavily slanted to Trotskyite and revisionist writers, although they have a big collection of Marx & Engels. But if you're interested in Lenin, you'll have to go elsewhere.

http://www.marx2mao.com/

So, as with anything else, just be careful with what you read.

Though Putin, I don't see how a Trostkyist site would be anti-Lenin (though left and council communists would be)

Meh I won't get into whether Trotskyism is anti-Leninist, but I'm not saying the archive is particularly anti-Lenin. The archive simply posts what well-known Marxist theoreticians have written. You just get a feel for what the site is based on how much of each of the writers they post. The marxists.org site used to have very little from Lenin while the Trotsky archive was enormous. They now have quite a lot so it's actually adequate for your Lenin needs. They still have pretty much nothing from Stalin (like 5 writings?). Mao they have a good deal more these days.

There is nothing normal about wanting to join any political party (unless perhaps they're giving free donuts to new members), and those of us who do should be treated with great suspicion. The Socialist party, unless you are a true believer, is one to avoid at all costs. They are too few in number to be any real help to you, and sadly by being a member you make it easier for others to dismiss you as a nutter.

"He who is not a socialist at 19, has no heart. He who is still a socialist at 30, has no brain."
attributed to Otto von Bismarck

"Normal" - the most abused word in all languages.....

Am I the only one to think that not only is Airborne joking, but that the subtleness of it is just hilarious? "Is it normal to want to be a socialist?" "up until now I've been a quiet midwestern farmer conservative". This can hardly be real... +1

Socialism is a great governmental and economic system. That is all I have to say.

Many who don't live in such a system or who lived in it so long ago that they don't remember the down side of it would say the same thing.

"attributed to Otto von Bismarck"

Falsely. Bismarck was never a socialist, he just implemented the first welfare state. Unfortunately people think that's what counts for socialism these days. That quote was made by Clemenceau.

"They are too few in number to be any real help to you, and sadly by being a member you make it easier for others to dismiss you as a nutter."

That's Octavious, our exemplar of a profile-in-courage. The shining example of what it means to be committed to civic institutions.

I find it ironic that the staunchest of so-called democrats have such a loathing for politics and participation. They hate rallies, they hate political parties, they hate pluralism.

But everybody else is a totalitarian.

I would not have thought that anyone would labour under the delusion that Bismarck was ever a socialist and apparently Clemenceau just borrowed or adapted it as many others have done; at least I could neither find nor check a direct reference. Still, as a heartfelt statement (borrowed or original) it is more fitting to come from Clemenceau than Bismarck.

http://laurenbacall.2p.net/knowledgebase/view/1272/whosaidquotifyoureyoungandnotademocratyouhavenoheartquot.html

I also didn't understand your comment that "Bismarck was never a socialist". I actually thought the quote was generally considered to be Churchill's, like some who responded to the question.

What's interesting about Bismarck is that he very accurately predicted both the timing and the trigger of the First World War twenty years before it broke out. That's statesmanship...

The comment was made during the French Revolution, by a monarchist named Guisot, and then used by Clemenceau. Like Bismarck Churchill is given credit for a lot of things he never did or said.

"What's interesting about Bismarck is that he very accurately predicted both the timing and the trigger of the First World War twenty years before it broke out."

Well of course, he played a big role in inflaming the problems of the Balkans and great power rivalries in the region which had existed for decades. That's not 'statesmanship', that's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Aww, Putin, I love politics and participation. But I am the first to admit that those of us who do, and who are members of political parties (as I and rather a high percentage of people on this site are) are, lets face it, a bit odd.

I do notice that whilst you attacked my comment you didn't go as far as to say that it wasn't true. If we are to assume that questions from people like airborne are genuine (and I see no reason why not. Indeed, if we didn't then this entire forum would grind to a halt) then we should at least try to answer in a helpful and honest fashion. Sticking like glue to Party lines never really gets anyone anywhere.

Well the SPUSA is not really a party, it has maybe 1,000 members. And the problem with joining it is not that you'd be treated like a 'nutter', because SPUSA is barely even leftwing under the leadership of Billy Wharton. The problem is that SPUSA expends all of its 1,000 member dues money on vanity electoral campaigns that are rather pointless, instead of trying to assisting in broader inter-left cooperation that most other small leftwing groups try to do. In short, while most leftwing groups try to build large-scale social movements by providing them with direction and the energies of committed activists, SP wastes its time participating in elections it has no hope of winning. Other small "parties" are not like that.

I wish it were more normal. Realizing that the proclaimed demon is not really all that evil is an important part of life. Always look at all sides of an issue. Try playing devil's advocate with yourself in as honest a way as possible. Breaking preconceptions, whether about people, groups, or ideas, is a good thing. It's unfortunate that it isn't as much a part of "normal" life as it should be.