Italy always stabs Austria.

i would like, lando.

Fuck off Frank

England: Nwg, Nth, Yor
France: Bur, support to Bur, MAO
Germany: Den, Kie, Bur
Russia: GoB, BLS, Gal, Ukr
Turkey: Bul, Con, BLS
Italy: Apu, Ion, HOLD
Austria: Gal, Alb, Ser

Although this is just a guess. Educated as it might be.

I want to have a coversation about powerful moves in gunboat that aren't as common in full press. I think the English move to the Channel is much more powerful in gunboat because it can really encourage Germany to side with you.

Which is good because I see England becoming the odd man out in the West pretty often.

I think think a Russian move north is significatnly less powerful because it's almost impossible to avoid a bounce in Galicia, so Rumania becomes a very hard center to get.

Italian moves are pretty much the same (though I rarely see Italy or France fighting much off the bat). Same with the Turkish moves.

A French supported move to Burgundy is a lot stronger in gunboat than it is in press (though I starting to respect that move more if you're not into putting pressure on Italy)

I don't see many French fleets move to the EC, maybe because the Russian move north is uncommon?

This is a good thread. We don't really talk gunboat strategy much on the thread and I am interested in what other people think.

I tend to agree with your assessment. Can we talk about Russia more specifically? I personally hate drawing Russia in gunboat. I don't know what to do. I usually open south because going north usually gets one nowhere. But if Turkey goes against you you're kind of screwed. I often want to work with Austria but I find it hard to communicate that.

What do you think of an opening with Russia supporting Vienna to Galicia?

As Austria, you usually want that Galicia move to bounce. Because being able to cover back Trieste is nice too.

I usually show Russia Galicia to try to convey that I want to ally (don't move there), and while that CAN really bite you in the ass, it also gives Russia some options.

Over the last several months I have been working on a Russia gunboat strategy where I abandon the South and try my best to encourage A/T to fight. I do this typically by bouncing in BLA and supporting VIE-GAL. This allows me to open North and hopefully get a build or two in the first year so that I can build in MOS to support SEV in case of a hostile Turkish opening. This strategy works best when:

1. England opens to the Channel (in these scenarios I invariably get NWY for a build).
2. Germany opens to HOL (then I get Sweden)
3. Italy convoys to TUN (invariably following up with a lepanto)

If it doesn't look like I'll get NWY or Sweden then I go into defensive mode for the next couple years - I do this by moving A STP-MOS in F1901 so that I can support SEV. Eventually Austria gets strong enough after RUM to hit BUL and then Turkey turns around to fight for himself. If Turkey hasn't opened to ARM then I continue trying for the Scandinavian/German centers.

I think I would be hesitant about moving to Armenia right off the bat in a low pot gunboat, but a move to Armenia(which you never see in gunboat, but is a viable move, expecially with the follow up into Sev, or Ukraine to set up the self bounce and the second fleet to gain control of the Black Sea) and allowing Austria into Galicia, then bouncing back into Sev would be the way to counter an agressive Turkey. Then, if things go poorly you pull that fleet (and if it's a high pot gunboat) Turkey should know that the Jug is on.

ava, I'm surprised you get Norway with a move to the Channel, I an pretty positive I would bounce you. Though I guess England is looking very hard at guaranteeing himself the build in Holland. Hmm, I think I would prefer to bounce Norway, and pray like hell Germany got the message of my move to the channel and also bounces Sweden. Of course, in that situation you want to see the bounce in Bur.

I've never had much success giving up my southern front like that. It seems to rely a lot on luck.

What about the other side of things, abandoning your north front to focus south. Even using the strategy gramilaj said? Just commit everything south. If you get Sweden build douth and retreat to St. Petes and just hold. Ideally England will take St. petersburg eventually with a fleet. Or you hold it is even better. But even if no he can't get further and you can disband the unit and fully commit south even more. I guess this is also better if England and Germany are figthing.

Playing Russia is Gunboat was never easy.
Russia needs to get a 'lucky break'.
That includes, imho , Norway.
In other words, your neighbours needs to leave you alone in the south, and England needs to open to the Channel - thus abandoning NWY - for Russia to have a nice game....

This is interesting. Perhaps there really are optimal opening moves in Gunboat (more so than standard, as the initial diplomacy is so so important).

interesting analyses, gentlemen.

i am looking for this article that had compiled the most common openings made in gunboat games.

I usually do well with Russia, using the standard southern opening, but the one time I've tried the Octopus, Germany opened with a Barbarrossa! I eventually survived, but it was the only time I can recall in my diplomatic life that I had to disband in 1901!

Here's the game for reference: gameID=45299
If I had used my usual opening, I could have salvaged Warsaw and Germany would be in trouble.

Over the last several months I have also been developing a Barbarossa gunboat strategy for Germany and it has worked 2 times out of 3, particularly if England opens o the channel. I have never ended up actually taking WAR, but instead moving SIL-MUN to cover my home center, and PRU-LVN (which 50% of the time results in being able to walk straight into STP the next year as Russia moves GOB-BAL; in other cases being in LVN is simply enough to harass Russia and guess your way into one of the three home centers bordering LVN). Once I have DEN for the 1901 build I either build A KIE (if England has HOL) or F KIE to make a bid on SWE. The idea is to get in a position to take DEN, SWE, NWY and STP for 4 builds before the midgame, as opposed to just HOL, DEN and BEL which is the most you get from typical Germany openings. Here is an example game with this strategy (gameID=46794)

As you can see it didn't work out so well in this game: gameID=41812 since doofman was annoyed as hell (all Russias eventually go suicidal on you, and this will potentially kill you unless they are having a truly bad day.

Not a bad outcome in this one: gameID=40433 Who knows what would have happened if we kept playing. Poor Barn3tt had a great time on the receiving end there :P That was actually the first game I tried it out. I'd like to call it the Silent LVN Gambit lol.

Not an opening for those who are not feeling up to grabbing the situation by the balls and serving some death notices.

Seems like if E and F fight you're going to be OK but if neither moves to th channel then you make their next target.

As Germany I like trying to everyone vs. England and stacking up fleets. Ideally you're working with France and when it comes time to stab you're in great position.

Yeah that's a fairly well-proven strategy. The only problem is that you can hit a growth stop after DEN/HOL/BEL, and for your 7th build you actually have to go UP to Sweden, or West to Warsaw unless you want to spend the rest of your life fighting for Burgundy or North Sea. I feel it is impractical for Germany to fight England in gunboat unless he is at 7 or 8 since the communication is virtually impossible for a Sealion that puts you in NTH.

Also w/ regards to the Barbarossa strategy I still haven't come up with a backup in case E and F never fight, so more experimentation definitely needed. Hopefully I'll get a Russia who hasn't read this

Hi,
I just wanted to comment on the Russia strategy proposed by ava2790. I tried it out in my previous gunboat game (gameID=47363) and it was actually rather successful! I managed to come top of a 4 way draw.

However, someone tried the same strategy in the current game I'm playing and is being slaughtered for it! So, the jury may still be out.

Do what I did when I wanted to find an old forum post.

Google search Webdiplo thread (insert title name)

I did that when I wanted to find the discussion about the Key Lepanto (without anyone knowing that I was looking for it)