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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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bbanks2504 (0 D X)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Join our game and make our dreams come true!
Hi everyone,
A small group of us want to get a World War game going. Join us (http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=155069)!
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 D Mod (G))
05 Feb 15 UTC
Vaccination Law
http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2015/02/california-aims-limit-vaccine-exemptions

California is considering stricter vaccination requirements, but evidently they are also considering the continuation of a religious exemption, which renders this law useless..
154 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
11 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
Excellent article: what is 'othering'
http://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/im-not-your-token/
17 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (761 D)
02 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
God: Utterly evil, capricious and monstrous
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/feb/01/stephen-fry-god-evil-maniac-irish-tv

Discuss.
445 replies
Open
Zach0805 (100 D)
04 Feb 15 UTC
(+4)
Chris Kyle Day
Last Monday was Chris Kyle Day in Texas. Obama hasn't said a word about his death last year but orders flags flown at half mast for Whitney Houston who died of Cocaine. I went on whitehouse.gov and looked up Chris Kyle. Here's what I got; http://search.whitehouse.gov/search?affiliate=wh&form_id=usasearch_box&query=Chris+Kyle
196 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (2244 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
(+13)
You can now mark messages as unread
You're welcome.
39 replies
Open
grking (100 D)
11 Feb 15 UTC
Learning a Language
Read below
14 replies
Open
yassem (2533 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
How about using WebSocket instead of HTTP?
I am wondering about the cons of using WebSocket...
yassem (2533 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
I know this should rather be posted as a suggestion, but I am really curious about the opinions on such factors as efficiency, feasibility etc. (I just started working on my own simple browser-based game for my friend and I want to learn from the experience of other sites)

SO: Why does webDip. stick with HTTP? I get that it is much easier, but especially in case of very short phase games a two way conversation with the server could be really great. Not only wouldn't you have to refresh every 15 seconds to see if the next turn started (due to everyone's ready) and the messages could be instant...
So the gains are obvious, how about some cons?
Sherincall (338 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Are you gonna spend the time implementing it? Or pay the devs?
yassem (2533 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
As in in case of webdip or my game?
In my game I am considering learning how to program it - I am using asp.net.
In case of webdip I assume the developers can figure it out : D
ghug (5068 D (B))
09 Feb 15 UTC
I'll let A_Tin_Can give you an official answer, but I think it really comes down to the fact that the site's code base is old and we've never had more than one dev (it was effectively zero for quite a while until a few months ago). A live press interface is definitely on the to do list, but it's a long list, and there are a lot of higher priority items on that list that would take a lot less time and energy to get working.
yassem (2533 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Oh - Ok, good to know. So there isn't a real con to that, except for the fact that it take time and effort, good to know. May I ask whether you plan to use WebSocket or some more complex implementations of HTTP?
ghug (5068 D (B))
09 Feb 15 UTC
That's something the actual dev (A_Tin_Can) would have to answer. I'm not well versed in the intricacies of internet protocols.
A_Tin_Can (2244 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Ghug has it absolutely right. The primary reasons we don't use something like websockets are:

1) Websockets weren't widely supported when webdip was first written - I haven't checked, but it's possible that websockets didn't even exist then.

2) Changing to websockets would be a lot of work. It's a pretty big change- in addition to the new code, it would also require substantial changes to the way phase change/message notifications work internally.

That said, something that allows instant messaging and phase changes without refreshing the page is actually on the long term todo list. It would dramatically improve the live game experience.

With any feature changes, a big part of the development time is spent on testing. If we change the way notifications and message work, it would have to be 100% right before it was released for all gams. In addition to the testing during development, It would probably spend some time as a "beta live game" mode before being made permanent for all games.

tl;dr: For historical reasons, and because it would be a lot of work to change.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
09 Feb 15 UTC
I tried and then got bored, because i could make neither heads nor tails of the code base.
yassem (2533 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Yeah, I know the problem with trying to improve something that already works, let alone fixing an existing code : D
A_Tin_Can (2244 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Orath: To get started with notifications, you want to look at the send* methods of objects/members.php and for messages, you'll want to look at lib/gamemessage.php. There'll probably be misc changes in board/member.php. For the phase change, you'd need a hook in the process() method on the game class.

Note that this change would be substantial - it's probably not a good candidate for a first change.

Having worked with the code for a while, I can say this is probably the cleanest large PHP project I've yet worked with. In general, it's very easy to maintain and make changes, and the code layout is very nice. Like any large project, it all seems wrong at first, of course :)

In this case, though, we'd be changing the code to do something that it definitely wasn't intended to do. It's a difficult change, and would require a lot of thought to keep the code as clean as it currently is. For those reasons, I really don't recommend it as a first change.
yebellz (729 D (G))
10 Feb 15 UTC
Looks like websockets weren't even standardized until 2011, and the webDip code base predates that by several years.

@yassem:
Also, using websockets is not the only way to implement asynchronous communication with the server (i.e., for getting messages and game state changes immediately without having to refresh the page).

AJAX techniques could accomplish the basically same thing (at least from the user perspective), although there are technical differences in what's going on behind the scenes (e.g., long polling vs a true push).

Here is an interesting discussion on the topic of AJAX vs websockets:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10377384/why-use-ajax-when-websockets-is-available

However, just as with switching over to websockets, adopting AJAX techniques would probably require a similarly huge development effort involving modification of several core components.
A_Tin_Can (2244 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
^I agree with this.

I think the hard part is not which technology we use - the effort is in the (re)design for the necessary changes, and in testing.
yebellz (729 D (G))
10 Feb 15 UTC
Note: webDip already does use some AJAX techniques, but this is limited to the situation of submitting orders. However, broadening the usage of AJAX for other features would still require a huge amount of work, probably on the order of practically rewriting several core components.
yassem (2533 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Sure, Ajax is one of the possibilities for polling, but isn't that generally considered soon-to-be outdated? The effect for the user is the same, but the efficiency is much lower, isn't it. Nevertheless, I do understand the problems with implementation.
yassem (2533 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Outdated as in polling technique, not AJAX of course
yebellz (729 D (G))
10 Feb 15 UTC
(+1)
@yassem:

*LONG* Polling, Comet, etc. are not the same thing as simple, repetitive polling. Basically, within the wide array of techniques that get thrown under the "AJAX" label, there are various methods that fairly effectively emulate the responsiveness and efficiency of server pushes.

Here is a page that might help explain things:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11077857/what-are-long-polling-websockets-server-sent-events-sse-and-comet

I would also recommend looking more into the wide breadth of AJAX techniques. AJAX isn't simply one method, but rather a catch-all label that has been applied to a wide variety of techniques.
Check out wikipedia and various tutorials on the web that you can find via google.


As for "efficiency" ... performance (latency, throughput, etc.) considerations are just one part of the larger set of design considerations that have to be made for choosing a solution. Client-side support, network/server support, and ease of integration into other frameworks are just some of the many of other design considerations that need to be made. For example, would a tiny fraction of second difference in message latency really matter for webDip? Or would it be more important to ensure that the feature works across more clients/networks?

Maybe you overlooked this link that I posted above, which explores some of the pros/cons of AJAX vs websockets:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10377384/why-use-ajax-when-websockets-is-available

In regards to AJAX vs websockets, you have to weigh these design considerations to figure out what might work best for you application/context. It would be foolish to simply say that one is objectively better than the other.


TL;DR: Read the discussion in two links that I posted above.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
11 Feb 15 UTC
Long polling is awesome and easy to implement on the client side... But I don't like it as a server-side solution, because I don't know how to create a single thread to handle all the open connections... You end up with one process per page, and it just builds and builds... At least in php, I don't know how to pass a open connection to a list waiting for messages.

Not sure about a websocket alternative...


17 replies
King Atom (100 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Any Poli Sci geeks around?
Hi, it's been a while. The political science department at my school can be dead sometimes and I've been looking to bounce some ideas around. I don't know why, but I remembered this site and thought there might be a few of you around with some interest for discussion. I know that for the most part, the discussion on this site is news/opinion based, but I don't know what kind of theory backgrounds some of you might have...
41 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D (B))
09 Feb 15 UTC
The Final Chapter
Previous thread has been locked, for those interested it can be found here:
http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1206845#1206845

7 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 D Mod (G))
10 Feb 15 UTC
Motley Crue
Final tour with Alice Cooper hits Chicago on August 8... who's in?
4 replies
Open
Pete U (293 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Who wants a game?
So, I've got no games going on. Who wants to play? - 48 hours turns, WTA, anon (for preference). Bet size up for negotiation
17 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 D Mod (G))
10 Feb 15 UTC
Outsourcing
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/01/16/169528579/outsourced-employee-sends-own-job-to-china-surfs-web

Old article, but this is possibly the greatest idea ever.
8 replies
Open
Nievski (105 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Italiani che giocano su webDiplomacy
Per tutti gli italiani: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=155020
Parola d'ingresso italia
2 replies
Open
Sh@dow (3512 D)
10 Feb 15 UTC
Premier League Bet Size
Can we all agree to increase the bet size by consensus in accordance with the rules??
100-200 D?? Or more if you'll want?
7 replies
Open
Chaqa (4231 D (B))
10 Feb 15 UTC
Spider-Man to enter MCU
http://marvel.com/news/movies/24062/sony_pictures_entertainment_brings_marvel_studios_into_the_amazing_world_of_spider-man

This is awesome.
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 D Mod (G))
14 Jan 15 UTC
(+8)
Mafia V - The Invasion of vDiplomacy
Look! I found it! M5! Guys, I found it! WOOOO!!
3422 replies
Open
gwenifyre (100 D)
06 Feb 15 UTC
Gunboat Newbie Question
So, is gunboat here just everyone for themselves? Or are there ways you use to form allies?
17 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D (G))
07 Feb 15 UTC
It's time for Temple!
I'll be heading out to TempleCon in a few minutes to make it to the 9am game. Check back here for updates!
38 replies
Open
RowYerboat (107 D)
06 Feb 15 UTC
Why aren't forced disbands automatically adjudicated in the retreat stage?
Seems like it would be easy enough to implement.
51 replies
Open
Nievski (105 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Load other variants?
is possible to load other variants?
can be taken from this site? http://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php
Some of them seem unbalanced, but is possible to correct to balance
10 replies
Open
canduh (25 D X)
09 Feb 15 UTC
World Diplomacy game
2 day turn, 30 point, PPSC
gameID=154966

Roll up!
6 replies
Open
ckroberts (3548 D)
31 Jan 15 UTC
Technology question
You are a bunch of smart folks here and maybe someone can help me with this question about computer voice-to-text.
46 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2875 D (G))
09 Feb 15 UTC
Snowpocalypse Part III
Despite how important we think we are, we are unfortunately not considered essential personnel.
9 replies
Open
Draffin (172 D)
09 Feb 15 UTC
Replacement player required!
Hi Everyone, we've had a player have to leave our game and are looking for a replacement.
It's the build phase of 1901, you're Russia and you've managed to wrangle three builds! So you're in an awesome position.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=154607#gamePanel
3 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (720 D)
07 Feb 15 UTC
Kevin Olusula
Wow, I am impressed with this guy. Pre-Med from Yale, fluent in Mandarin Chinese, and apparently the originator of Celloboxing. Oh Yeah, and the beatboxer for Pantatonix.

http://vimeo.com/68540760
16 replies
Open
Grey Area (0 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
New gunboat, WTA, 18 hours
All through with this niceness and negotiation stuff (OU)
http://gameID=154925
No need to bring lunch, you won't make it to...
4 replies
Open
stefanodangello (559 D)
08 Feb 15 UTC
Replacement needed + forum etiquette question
A replacement is needed in this game: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=148347

That said, is there a proper way to advertise open positions?
1 reply
Open
ThatCrazyGuy (511 D)
07 Feb 15 UTC
Private gunboat
I'm looking for people interested in a private WTA gunboat game for 101 D. I would prefer an American Empire map, but I'm also willing to set up a Modern map. It would have 1 day 12 hour phases.
2 replies
Open
Octavious (1712 D)
23 Jan 15 UTC
It's all Greek to me.
Her books are balanced, her economy is growing, and the EU is actually perusing economic measures that will help her for once. The road is still hard, but a return to prosperity seems inevitable. Only a crazed left wing lunatic could stop her now!
88 replies
Open
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