Tactically hopeless is one thing, but the potential for the existing players to agree to kill off the new player taking over a cD position is too easy to abuse. They take your points and continue from where they were. Maybe they play honestly or maybe they simply mug the newcomer. Impossible to know what you are walking into diplomatically

I have done quite well from two and even one SC that I have taken over as a service to the community. However my recent experience means I will not be doing this anymore

That's interesting. I've done this twice. About to do a winning draw in one and in a very strong position in the other. Just lucky, I suppose.

Well it sounds like the players in your games didn't decided beforehand to take you out. I've actually own games I've taken over

Perhaps the tip off is joining game with players who play together regularly. That should have been a giant red flag of the meta gaming potential

*won that is

sounds like you're making a classic mistake many make with this game -- extrapolating a statistically insignificant occurrence in one round of Diplomacy to the typical round of Diplomacy

But don't worry! It means you're ready to write tactics articles.

No, I m not saying it is typical. In fact it is rare. However, when you have a regular gaming group and you join. There is a potential that they just want you to join in order to get your points to raise the pot and not to contribute to the game at all

It is a form of meta gaming really. It isn't common just as meta gaming or playing multis isn't common. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Don't make the mistake of assuming that because something is rare that it doesn't occur. Funny, but I accused another player of having a multi because he threw a game to an opponent in a really suspicious way. Mods found nothing. However, a month later I am playing with the same player (and allied with him) only to find him banned for using multis. Sometimes your instinct of bad behavior are correct

As a player who has been around for a while now, I have to confess that I regularly get together with six lads of the old school to set up games with attractive CDs as bait for newbies. In they come like lambs to the slaughter, and then we take them out and harvest their points.

I know it's wrong, but it's just too hard to resist. You can literally earn nearly double figures worth of points for just a few days worth of effort.

The key to taking over and surviving to a draw and not being gang banged is negotiation skill. Obviously, you lack it ogion.

I think part of the problem is that some players mistake that joining an in-progress game is a 'service to the community.' Please allow me to clarify.


Joining random open games goes against the spirit of Diplomacy. Diplomacy, in the classic sense of the game, can be summarized as "seven strategicians sit down at a table to negotiate secret deals and try to gain enough leverage to force rivals out, pursuing a lopsided and favorable end-game."

It's not, "seven strategicians sit down to move a few units around randomly, waiting for someone to get bored and leave only so that a rotating case of characters surprises everyone with increasingly non-sensible moves, attempting to preemptively force a draw."

The rules for the game stipulate that you're supposed to decide *before hand* what happens when a player drops out. The rules don't say "when a player drops out, the chair should sit empty until some random person comes along and decides to sit down and start screwing with the game."

You're not helping by jumping in on random games.

I wouldn't want it understood that I *wouldn't* just attempt to game you out of the game through some sort of pre-arranged collusion if you randomly jump in a game. You're not helping. Please consider not doing this.

I know the game in question (I'm in it).

It's a private game that a player needed to leave for family reasons. We advertised on the forum for a replacement with the statement "The position may not be ideal, but it's definitely salvageable through some good diplomacy. This bunch tends to be...dynamic in our alliances."

Ogion took over a seven-center Russia that was at war with Germany and had just suffered a one-center Turkish stab. He tried to use some chainsaw diplomacy to save his position. It didn't work, and now he's upset. That's the beginning and end of it. The stakes in this game are low and the players in it are skilled and experienced enough that no one needs to lure in some new player to divvy up his points.

He ranted about it in the global press, but I guess that wasn't enough. He needed to come cry about it on the forum as well. Poor form...

On that note, though...isn't this essentially a cheating accusation for meta-gaming? Should this thread be locked?

This is not a topic to discuss in the forums until the game is ended. I'm sure the mods will be locking this shortly.

It wasn't specific to you Murray. Now it is. It was a general caveat emptor

However turns out "definitely salvageable" was rather a misrepresentation given the decisions already made

Lock it, delete it, whatever. Al is correct. People shouldn't join

To elaborate, thank you Al for your perspective. Forum retains its close to 100% record of teaching me new perspective whenever I post

Mods: I propose you lock this one

This was a vague thread about a general problem that someone decided to apply to himself. The OP was not making any specific cheating accusation. This thread will not be locked.

Yeah...we've hugged it out over PMs. C'est si bon.

Ignore Al's opinion. The *official* opinion of the site (via the mods) is that taking over abandoned positions *is* a service to the site.

Oh, ok abegmacht. I pulled Al's comment out in a separate thread as being worthy of general discussion. The rest of my rantings are, as usual, not