Meta-gaming refers to doing something or making a decision in a game, based primarily or entirely on factors *outside* of the game. Many kinds of meta-gaming are considered against the rules, although this is not always the case and sometimes you need to use common sense. There are many possible ways to meta-game. Most of these are considered bad form. Some of them are grounds for complaint and could lead to punishment from the mods.

Examples of meta-gaming that would be seriously frowned upon include:

- Allying with someone in a game because they are your friend in real life (this is expressly forbidden in the rules).

- Carrying negotiations from one game into another game, for instance "I will agree to a draw in Game A only if you support my attack on Tunis in Game B" (again this is expressly forbidden)

- Cross-game abuse of the pause function, for instance "Russia has requested a pause in Game A but I don't want to give him one. If you also agree not to hit 'pause' in that game, I'll ally with you in Game B." (see also Rule 5 for abuse of the pause function).

A more nuanced example of meta-gaming that might be more difficult for the mods to impose sanctions on, but would still be very poor sport:

- Realising that a given player lives in a different time-zone from everyone else in a particular game, and timing your messages to him so that he will be unlikely to see your message until after the turn has processed, but still allowing you to claim you were doing your best to communicate with him.

Yes the time zone thing is very frequently used i believe

Also - meta-gaming should not be confused with multi-accounting. Multi-accounting, that is, having more than one account, is completely agains the rules.

Finally, if you suspect anyone of cheating and wish to make a complaint, please DO NOT post the details of your suspicion here. Posting cheating allegations on the forum is also against site rules. What you should do if you want to make a cheating complaint, is email the Moderators at: [email protected]

It is hard to accuse someone of cheating because you would have to know if they had more than one account. I don't have the time or patience to do this. I just enjoy this game and want to keep playing. There should be a button in each game that allows you to leave( and concede your points) if you are unhappy with the situation. ( not just because you might be losing)

I don't care if someone wants to cheat. They have to live with themselves I just don't want to play with them.

See jamie's post for a great definition. The real key here is gaining an unfair advantage over the rest of the board or having some kind of relationship or knowledge of another player(s) that prevents you from acting impartial toward that person(s).

Even if you are playing with a real world friend in a game, even if you are trying to treat them the same as the rest of the board, the fact that a friend is on the board will still subconsciously affect your moves. Working with them will automatically arouse suspicion from the mods, while attacking them out of concern for metagaming accusations will still have an undue influence over your moves.

The bottom line, though, is that there is no way to impartially play with friends on this site. If you do have friends, the best course of action is to play in a password protected private game with only your friends. You are inviting a mod investigation if play any other way.

ssorenn, if you are at all concerned about a situation in any game, email the mods at [email protected]. Do not post about it in the forum, as this violates the cheating accusation rules on this site.

The best way to avoid playing with anybody you are not comfortable with is to create a private game and solicit players on the forum.

@ssorenn - If you suspect it, send the email to the mods. You don't need to investigate or gather evidence. The mods will look into it and they are good at catching it.

I appreciate all the response. I actually am not interested in telling on anyone. I will just walk away from a particular game. I'm in it for the fun win or lose. It's a learning experience.

ssorenn,

As 2WL has said, the mods are here to help. If you feel someone may be cheating, just email us. We're happy to look into it and it may prevent other games from being ruined.

" I will just walk away from a particular game."

Judging by your terrible resign rate, you clearly have no hesitation about walking away.

Here's a tip, ssorenn. The more you respect the site and the game in which you're playing, the more you will get in return. I can safely say that nobody on this site wants to play with somebody who quits in 20% of their games.

As has been mentioned, respect the game and your opponents by not quitting. If you suspect trouble, write the mods and they will look into it, but don't kist walk away. You may find that your opponents are just better at reading and anticipating moves and saw something you didn't.

"I appreciate all the response. I actually am not interested in telling on anyone. I will just walk away from a particular game. I'm in it for the fun win or lose. It's a learning experience."

This type of reasoning hurts the site in 2 ways. The first way is that by refusing to report people who might be cheating you are putting the responsibility of reporting them onto someone else, which just lets cheaters get away with their cheating. That wrecks games for other site members. The second reason is that walking away from a game ruins the game for everyone else. If I'm playing a game of poker with some friends and I start losing I keep playing. If I just walk away the remaining chips I have get wasted and it throws the game off for my friends, I respect them enough not to do that. There's also a chance that I can make an awesome come from behind win. The number one thing we ask on this site is that members respect one another. So I ask that even if you don't like your position you at least make an effort to finish out the game so you don't ruin other peoples fun. Kestas (the site owner) is currently working on implementing a system that will punish people who leave games, because it's become such a big problem on the site.

Anyways, we always want people to report anyone they suspect might be playing unfairly, if only to do your part in making sure other members don't have their games wrecked by people playing unfairly. I hope that makes sense, and please let me know if you have any questions about why we encourage people to finish games or why we ask you to report people you suspect of cheating. Thanks.

-WebDip Admin

Will just holding armies suffice for you? That way the game continues.

I understand that the site is bigger and in more need then just me,but from my point of view the game becomes ruined (for me) if I think something mischievous is going on. The other problem I have pointing the finger at someone is , what if I'm wrong?

That is why you send an email to the mods. All investigations are handled in private and if you are wrong, you will be told there was nothing found against the rules. Think of it this way, what if you were wrong, quit the game, and ruined it for everyone in it? Either was you were wrong. Nothing bad has happened if you play it out and send the mods the email but something bad has happened either way if you just quit. Either you have allowed the cheats to continue cheating and harmed the site or you have ruined a game for six other players for nothing.

I cam say with a measure of confidence that you will *never* be invited into any of the tournaments, leagues, or private game with a reputation you are developing and will forever be playing in public, low point games with the crappiest and most unreliable of players (like yourself).

And just issuing all holds is even more. At least when you quit, someone else can take over. Email the mods and play it out or forever be branded with a scarlet Q for quitter.

Is even worse... Not more...

Draugnar and jmo are right. If you suspect someone of cheating, and your response to that situation is just to abandon the game, that's the worst possible outcome for everyone (except perhaps the cheater).

I have this feeling that your suspicions are about me & Austria in this game gameID=132519 ?

Let me assure you that I don't know Austria at all.

mayo, please do not imply or respond to implied cheating accusations on the forum.

"what if I'm wrong?"

I would say 70-80% of the time you will be wrong. Perhaps even more. While we do have cheaters on the site, especially in low pot games (<100 ) it does occur far less frequently than you or probably most other players imagine.

For an idea of how frequent cheating is, scroll through the active games tab. We currently have 523 ongoing. After you're done with that, sort the section by "highest pot first" and take a look at how many cheaters are in the high pot games who are not named Sargmacher. That should be all the incentive you need to stay in games. The more you win (or draw), the more points you accrue, the better competition you're able to play.

But don't quit.

I second 2WL's recommendation. Talk nice to the mods and Kestas and keep you stats clean and I bet they'd even clean up your resigns for you so you can get into those higher pot invitationals.

@Mayo - Beyond what 2WL said, I doubt he was talking about a full press game. More likely some anon-gunboat going on where he thinks cheating is happening.

However - I would just stress the importance of jmo's statement that it is always best to report people who *might* be cheating, if your suspicions are genuine.

If you are wrong about your cheating suspicions 70% of the time, that still means that 30% of the time, you will be helping the Mods to root out cheaters who might otherwise get away with it.

Don't do nothing. And don't quit.


(I also laughed out loud when I read "look at how many cheaters are in the high pot games who are not named Sargmacher" - hehe)

Of course you could play like I play and win or draw all the low point games only to have your points wiped out in big pot, anon, full press, WTA games. :-)

The resigns I have mostly came from live games that I played when I first started on the site and I have to walk away for a variety of reasons. At 45 and have two kids other responsibilities come first even to the dismay of the site. Also I did not know that these types of records were kept. Lots of people leave a game all the time and I thought it was more the norm than not.

It is absolutely not the norm. When you sign up for live games, always make sure you have enough time to dedicate to an entire game, which typically last 2-3 hours should you make it to the end.

Only in live games I sit the norm. But come over to the dark side and play day or two phase games. Less commitment at one time required and more conducive to great play with way fewer CDs as well as cheats. They happen, but the cheaters require more effort cause it takes weeks, even months, to play a game out and they usually get caught before the game progresses much farther versus being able to fly under the radar in the fast paced live games.

is it the norm... And 2WL says it isn't even there. I don't know cause I don't usually have 3 hours to dedicate to a live game where I can't walk away. That's why I stopped playing WoW with friends. I couldn't dedicate 2 hours to a dungeon crawl.

I've finished 135 games on this site, almost all with low pots. In that, I've been moved to make 2 cheating accusations to the mods (both of which were correct). However, I stayed in the games, with results of a draw and a cancelled game due to cheating. Walking away was never a consideration for me.

These are things I know now. Not then. I am happy to comply with what is in the best interest of the site and all the fine players I have had the privilege to play with. I know so want it to be more than a game but to me it will always be just a game.

It's not that we view it as more than "just a game" as much as we view the quiter as having had no respect for our *time*.

Thanks for your consideration ssorenn, and we're not asking for it to be more then a game, just a game that's played respectfully. Like in tennis or chess, there's just a general "code of conduct" if you will, nothing written in stone, but a set of guidelines that make the game more fun for everyone. Best of luck to you in your future games.