@ND
Yes, I saw you say you got 'valuable intelligence', except that's just as vague as LI's "scummy behaviour".

@Captain
Since when did you contribute so much d1? Must be mafia. Seriously though; you shouldn't need to moderate your meta to stop certain people bitching, and until now you've steadfastly refused to do so. What changed? Did ghug really win you over?

@OB
I totally agree that discussing WHO the vig kills is a bad idea; but a quick chat at the day start suggesting it holds its shot is acceptable in my eyes.

@Yoyo
Great anchoring post...

@DL
A lot of people seem to be calling you scummy, and as I said earlier, I think this is making a mountain out of jokepost molehills that you seem to post every game. That being said, why did you wait until now to question anything/anyone other than ND? You didn't OMGUS tunnel him, so you must have had thoughts on other people whilst he was tunnelling you. When that chat ended, why didn't you start to look for those? It seems like you've just gone from defending yourself against ND to defending yourself against wjessop and LittleItaly. Nobody is relevant to you unless they suspect you. That's odd.

@ND - you shouldn't worry about my engagement, I will contribute when I have something to say and have time. I don't understand your point that I was upping my post count by correcting typos specifically as I state that correction posts should count towards post counts. If you think I'm not adding to the debate, I would suggest you're not reading what I say closely enough, another player has suggested that my read on Ghug is the most serious to date. I'm too modest to pass comment on my superior skill, but I think he may have a point.

HR - point taken re everyone stating who they would scan if cop, perhaps I should clarify and suggest that everyone should post those details very close to night deadline. I admit any and all info given gleaned by this action could be useful to scum, but I maintain it is probably more useful to town. For example if I say I would scan "a", "b" and"c" and I'm the cop my actions when I'm exposed as cop give town really good info. The info gained by mafia when they don't know who is cop is limited IMHO. That said my proposals don't seem to have been considered much by others and I'd like some others to contribute so matter can be considered properly.

*correction posts shouldN'T count towards post counts.

HR - I was asleep

Oh, and ##UNVOTE italia

@Maniac - Amusing joke.

Going further on into your hypocop plans - it just opens a can of WIFOM worms for Mafia to throw all over the town. Say the cop dies. We all go "Ah, the cop was investigating Y, having already investigated X". Then we spend half a day arguing whether that means Y is mafia, whether mafia were framing Y, whether it's because Z who was next in line was mafia, whether mafia wanted to frame Z, whether mafia wanted to clear V, who was mafia, but a fake-cop they didn't believe claimed they were copping him... so many scenarios that mafia can use to confuse the town; and at the end of it, what you've done is waste a day/half a day that should have been used for nailing actual mafia.

Going to sleep, please take a note that I would be asleep 6-8 hours from this time. Letting you know as I feel that its the active time for you guys.

@Hellenic Riot, why do you keep tentpoling everyone? Trying to push people in to certain boxes and pitting people against each other? You say that the concerns about DeathLlama have been overblown and then proceed to try and sow more division about the issue. That seems fairly scummy.
#tentpoling

You keep swooping in and passing your judgements from above on everyone else. Calling everyone else out on exaggerated issues, is there a word for that?
#overblowing

Also, ##VOTE MANIAC

It's interesting that, despite being on a few times, the only thing he's contributed towards scumhunting is a scumread of Ghug. The rest of the time he's only discussed procedures and defended himself.

@wjessop

If you read closely, you'll note that I mentioned the ORIGINAL reasons DL was being called scummy were poor. However, I don't think his reaction to them has been very great, and he has not done anything other than respond to people who have accused him. Until now with the Maniac vote, anyway. I have no idea what "#tentpoling" is, but it sounds like something on a night out in Brighton.

And yes, I'm passing my judgements in public rather than in private. My deepest and most sincere apologies for telling people what I think of things they've done; I realise now that this is something which has no place in a Mafia game. #Sarcasm

Anyway, as Chaqa apparently can't find anyone scummier than ghug in all of this, which I find incredulous, I'm going re ##VOTE Chaqa, but this time seriously.

A few interesting observations:

@HR: I like the way you glossed over the entire discussion I had with DL and brush it under the rug saying I'm scummy because all I said was "valuable intelligence". I have explained my vote on page 4 (false accusation/attributions, defensive posture) which led to more rage "ALL CAPS posts". If that isn't a valuable reaction (intelligence) of a poster I don't know what is.

@Maniac: Thank you for proving me wrong and continuing to engage. I retract my observation about not posting and post counts.

I have also noted that HR seems to be passive aggressive towards me for calling DL out on his scummy behavior. @WJE can you note other examples where HR has tried to push people in certain boxes other than me/DL? If so I may be able to see your point clearer. Thanks.

Edit* I said intelligence I meant to say valuable information or information in brackets. My apologies.

Quick GM note on modkills/replacements for inactivity:

I'm not trying to be super picky about this. If someone makes only 4 posts in a given day, I'm not absolutely going to modkill/replace them with 100% certainty. Over the last 24 hours of the game day, I will try to be very clear about who I feel needs to participate more lest they risk being modkilled/replaced at the end of the day.

@ND: My read was that HR has been slowly building up passive aggression against most of the people who have contributed so far, not only you and DeathLlama, who have posted the most, but also little digs at me, LittleItaly, captainmeme. He mentioned the vigilante discussion in his posts on this page but hasn't actually participated that much in the discussion, seemingly just posting around them. I noticed it and so wanted to ask directly. The forces of sarcasm and wit are undoubtedly strong with this one, but is that just distraction and bluster? Hm.

I also note with scepticism that only #tentpoling is a euphemism in Brighton and not the more obvious #overblowing.

There's no such thing as too much blowing ;).

Regarding the vigilante discussion - I was the first person to debate it with Captainmeme way back at the start. After it died down, I did not bring back up again, no, but I made my feelings pretty clear the first time around.

@ND: That said, Brankl is literally online right now and still hasn't bothered to talk to us, and is evidently actively avoiding doing so. I find this really hard to understand or explain, if only from a gaming point of view, not only town.

@Brankl: Where are you?

That's a valid point; Brankl appears to be doing very much what y2k did last game in that regard. Possibly he's typing up a big response, but if I don't see something in the next hour, my patience will wear thin there.

@WJE: That being said LittleItaly is 'on' right now as stated in LittleItaly's last post (which was anchoring). So, just because Brankl is 'on' doesn't mean they are 'on'. Still, I would like to see something from Brankl. Also after reading back through my notes I can see what you are talking about in regards to HR.

I would also like HR to explain a little more about how DL's reaction was not valuable to the town. It seems HR is trying to sidetrack the conversation instead of looking in-depth at the reaction and what that can tell us about DL.

I'm on page 5 right now, but so far let me just point out some things that stood out to me:

"Have you guys ever tried a maximum post count, as well as a minimum post count? Could be quite provocative."
-wjessop

A maximum post limit? So basically a limit on how much information we get? I get that this prevents people from posting fluff but even within mounds and mounds of fluff is a clue to something important. This also has a very negative effect and that is because there is a limit, you'll have people carefully planning out their posts instead of being more free with it, which is bad.


"In a game with more people and more mislynches, there are more mislynches and we can afford to dedicate some to vig shooting his 100%-town reads. (arguably they aren't 100%-town though as maf can influence, but that's beside the point)

However, this game with only three mislynches, vig should definitely think twice before pewing, especially if they aren't a nightkill target"
-DL
Ok can you explain this post because it looks like you just told the vig to shoot his town reads.

*bs between DL and ND*
Lol

*Maniac's posts on page 4*
Dude can you please use like a 9th or 10th grade vocabulary? I've already had to use a dictionary on one word and I'm feeling like it won't be the last. You're not a very effective communicator if I have to use a dictionary to figure out what you're talking about.

Okay I finally caught up reading this thread. But I'm a little concerned that nobody read my preface in the sign-up thread; didn't you know I was going to be gone the first day? I'm back home now, but I spent the last hour reading the first 7 pages of this thread and eating lunch. Here are my thoughts on what's gone on so far:
Discussing PRs: I believe that discussing this aspect of the game can give the town valuable information. And having watched last game, it should be noted that the vig may need our advice. I'm going to advise the vig to do what I think is best for the town because I want the town to win. Simple as that
As for DL and Italy I don't feel good about either of them. If people believe LI was bussing they should vote for DL instead of LI, because there's the chance LI was bussing and there's also the chance that LI has no clue but has stumbled upon scum. So I would vote DL before LI and would encourage others to do so as well. As for why I didn't talk more during my initial (very brief) visit last night, I must say that things were pretty quiet and I couldn't find anything that would suggest one of the posters was a strong scum read.
I'm curious though why ghug advocated for the vig to shoot when he was one of the vigs who held his shot in an earlier game on this site (this isn't information I'm recalling, it was mentioned pretty early by someone suggesting that the vig hold his shot).
@ghug: What caused you to change your mind? Are there other games in which you have shot first?

@DL: What do you think about the accusation that LI was bussing you? Knowing your role, how does this help you understand LI's behavior and what do you think we can conclude about LI as a result?

@LI
You've never really clarified what you believe DL did that was scummy; the debate turned on you and then you just played dumb for a while. Why do you believe DL is scum, and why did your post make it seem that you have more information than the rest of us (or are you just really confident in your initial reads)?
As others have mentioned, I don't like the way you suggested that it shouldn't matter how you knew DL would turn up scummy if we in fact caught him.

@Chaqa, you gonna do anything besides throwing down an empty vote? Weak.

##VOTE DeathLlama

LittleItaly's still strange, but I think his posts overnight have made it seem much more town strange than scum strange. DL, on the other hand, got ridiculously defensive after accusations from both ND and LI, and I think his unvote was uncharacteristically image motivated. For talking a lot, he also hasn't contributed much outside of his defenses, and I feel like I got the sense yesterday that he was trying to buddy up to me. The Maniac vote would be a continuation of that, but I need to go back and find the rest of it.

Oh and ##VOTE DL until he explains the post I mention in my first post above this one.

Until I get better answers I think I will simply vote for DeathLlama
##VOTE DeathLlama

@ghug: not really. I like to analyze votes and wagons. Not so good at the day 1 banter game.

Also @ghug don't forget about my question.
Why do you think the vig should shoot right away if you decided to hold your shot in an earlier game? Your logic along might have convinced us if we didn't know what you actually chose to do as the (town-aligned) vig in a previous game.

*alone

@Brankl, the time I held my shot was my first game on the site. I didn't really know what I was doing. I've died night two both times I've been Vig, and the risk of that is really enough that I think the Vig should be shooting early and often.

I'm skeptical of your logic for voting LI over DL. Shouldn't people be voting for whomever they most think is scum? You seem to be ignoring the possibility that LI is scum attacking town just because there's a chance he's scum bussing, and that doesn't follow. Do you even think bussing is likely here? You've just said that others said it, but nobody has really had the strong convictions on the issue that you have. Why are you passing it off as someone else's idea and then making broad generalizations on how people should vote based on it. Why would you encourage others to vote for someone before voting for that someone yourself.

The answers to all of these questions and many more, TONIGHT, in the Mafia QT! FEATURING BRANKL!

##VOTE Brankl