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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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ghug (5068 D(B))
05 Jul 15 UTC
ODC Subs
Come one, come all. Prove your worth against players from across the Internet. Up to two 36 hour phase press games, plus more if you win. PM me for more details.
5 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
On The Forum
As some of you may know, I have been a strong proponent of a one forum system. After some careful reflection, though, I've decided separate forums are better. I have a proposal that would allow for the separation of topics without the segregation of the community that many fear. I realize this is a sensitive topic, so I would appreciate serious criticism only. I have taken the liberty of making a mock-up of my proposed forum here: http://i.imgur.com/rgcdsO2.png
31 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
01 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
Mafia X Discussion (not sign up)
.
82 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
04 Jul 15 UTC
The dead 2.0
Open with 'box rain'
11 replies
Open
Devonian (860 D)
03 Jul 15 UTC
(+3)
1v1 Ladder tournament open to new players
Practice your tactics in a 1v1 tournament.
Visit the thread here:
http://www.vdiplomacy.com/forum.php?threadID=60990#60990
4 replies
Open
MarquisMark (326 D(G))
04 Jul 15 UTC
Has Diplomacy inspired actual diplomats?
Just curious.
10 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
27 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
Umpires
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/umpire-andy-fletcher-attempts-to-charge-mound-against-jon-lester-185755930.html

If you are in the "umpires can do no wrong, players are just out of their minds" crowd, have you changed your mind yet? This is everything wrong with umpires in one short clip.
8 replies
Open
ckroberts (3548 D)
05 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
The Mountain Game 2 has ended
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=159522
150 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
29 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
3rd of July Live Voice-to-Voice Game!
I have Friday off and nothing to do, so let's play some Diplomacy!
Requirements: Headset/Mic and Teamspeak3 (http://www.teamspeak.com/?page=downloads)
33 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
25 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
Robot labour?
http://www.scottsantens.com/yes-it-really-is-different-this-time-and-humans-already-need-not-apply

And basic income?
55 replies
Open
mendax (321 D)
30 Jun 15 UTC
(+3)
Greek Bailout Fund
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/greek-bailout-fund/x/11225530#/story

I just bought a bottle of wine. What will your contribution be?
92 replies
Open
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
01 Jul 15 UTC
Move adjudication question
France: A Paris -> Burgundy supported by Marseilles
Germany: A Burgundy -> Paris supported by Picardy
England: A Brest -> Paris supported by Gascony
What happens in Paris?
32 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
28 Jun 15 UTC
Director's Cut seems ambiguous to me..
Isn't a movie pretty much always the Director's Cut?
6 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
So what's been going on with reddit recently?
One thing after another. Maybe we should send zultar over there to clean things up.
10 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2736 D(B))
01 Jul 15 UTC
In vs. on
See inside.
14 replies
Open
ERAUfan97 (549 D)
01 Jul 15 UTC
start college tomorrow
Anyone got any tips to share with this noob?
49 replies
Open
arborinius (173 D)
10 May 15 UTC
(+5)
Daily MARX
This thread includes selected excerpts from Karl Marx.
58 replies
Open
wjessop (100 DX)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Site problems
The site is suddenly taking a rather long time to load/refresh for me this evening - does anyone know why that might be/any solution?

I'm in a live game right now and so it's not particularly helpful.
3 replies
Open
wjessop (100 DX)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Live replacement 8-center Italy needed
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=163902
10 replies
Open
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
A Diplomacy Scenario - Would you take a risk?
http://i.imgur.com/YlTaZEf.png
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Scenario:

You are playing Italy. Germany and Turkey have had their draw votes up for the last few years, but you pressed on, determined to pursue this game to its proper conclusion and to hopefully solo, or narrow it down to a 2WD.

Turkey, faced with the prospect of elimination, goes for the throw, hoping to force Italy to draw by threatening to give Germany the solo. However, the threatened solo isn't certain - it's a guessing game, with several Turkish options to throw, each counterable by a certain Italian moveset.

You can walk away with a certain 3WD, or you can gamble that your moveset will work to take it to a 2WD or a solo, but come out with a survive (this was WTA) if you are incorrect.

In this situation, the Italian player drew. Would you? If not, what moveset would you play?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
I would take ALB at all costs.
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Alb should be coloured red, as Austria went there in S01 - this was a continuation of a FTF game, and we took shortcuts setting it up on webdip, so Alb was incorrectly left uncoloured :)
where did you find this game?
uclabb (589 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Haven't worked it out but it looks like you can probably move in such a way that if you guess wrong, turkey gets an extra center not Germany. If that's the case I would play on
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
It is currently the Fall, correct?
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
That's correct, yes.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
The chance of soloing is almost zero, since I see no way to take SEV. I don't like cutting people out of the draw for no reason, so I would probably draw and a hostile 2 way isn't of interest to me. If you wanted it, though, I don't think it would be that hard:

BOH-GAL
ARM-SEV
BUD sh RUM
CON-BS
AEG-BUL
TRI-SER

The guarantees RUM. It may lose BOH, but you don't need that for the stalemate. The only way to lose ARM is by taking BS, so that seems fine. Should force the 2way pretty quick.

Please feel free to spot the hole in my analysis.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
Oh, that's not quite right. UKR can support SEV-RUM and GAL can break Bud's support. That would leave SEV open and Germany in RUM.

I suppose at that point you'd just go for the 3 way and hope you could still work with Turkey if Germany no longer wanted it.
Also, Bla C Sev-Ank is a killer.

If you go for the 2-way as Italy here, you have to be very confident. The difference between a 2-way and a 3-way is 1/2-1/3=1/6 of the points/GR/credit, a difference between a 3-way and a loss is 1/3. So you have to be at least 66% confident in the 2-way to make it worth your while.

I haven't though about it hard, but I'd be very tempted to go for the draw button here. You don't have a stalemate line as long as Bla is around.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
Good point. Convoy is a real possibility.

Italy really had no reason to continue this game.

A different question: why didn't Germany remove his draw vote and solo?
Because Turkey can easily throw the game to Italy too.

This game looks like a perfect example of why two-way draws are so rare in winner-takes-all games. Turkey did a great job positioning himself exactly where it matters, around Sev and Bla.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
I think a German solo is possible only if relations between Italy and Turkey have completely broken down. I don't think G can force it on their own.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
(If Germany removed their draw vote, that is)
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
Well, that's what it really comes down to. Is Turkey really so pissed at Italy that he'd truly throw the game to Germany? Germany risked nothing by trying.
thorfi (1023 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Yeah, I would take the 3WD, either as Germany or Italy. I don't see a way for Italy to keep Rum in a guaranteed way, Turkey and Germany can definitely force it.

And Germany can't just stab Turkey for the solo, can't get both Ankara and Rum.

Germany *could*, I think, have stabbed for the 2WD with:

Kie-Ber
Sil-War
Pru S Sil-War
Mos S Sev H
Gal-Ukr
Sev S Gal-Ukr

But question: Is this a public draw vote game as per WebDip? Because presumably if Germany pulls down their draw vote, Turkey will flip again and can defend against the above moves. And trying to sell Italy on "don't press draw yet, I'm going to stab Turkey" is... just going to get Italy to flip Turkey on you, presumably.

If it wasn't public draw vote, and I was playing Germany, I'd definitely be stabbing for the 2WD.
thorfi (1023 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
P.S.: And yes, I don't see a way for Germany to force a solo either, without Turkish cooperation.
JamesYanik (548 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
For me it all depends on the actual diplomacy part of the game. As Germany, I might be able to get the solo, but as Italy, I feel good enough trying to convince Turkey Germany was bullshitting him, and wanting the 2 way all along. Say that you would rather solo, because Germany won't commit to the solo line.

even a single Turkey troop moving back in a little cover could be good. Still ITaly is in a tough position. I'd go for it though
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
@thorfi yes it was public draw votes.
thorfi (1023 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Valis: Yeah, in that case I'd be putting in the above orders and just crossing my fingers that Italy didn't click draw. :-) Which as Italy I'd be clicking draw, so.
thorfi (1023 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Oh, that said, it also depends on the scoring system, if any. For WebDip's scoring, I'd be trying for the 2WD over the 3WD. For a "non scored" game, I'd just take the draw.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
@thorfi yes webDip scoring.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jul 15 UTC
@thorfi: i wouldn't care about the 'scores' - webdip points, 100 D, at the end of the day, aren't as important. A draw is just a draw, a solo is the aim of the game.

I almost think i'd prefer a ppsc draw, with wta solo... But for me i've no reason to prefer a 2-way draw over a 3-way.
thorfi (1023 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Orathaic: I've been a gamer too long. MOAR POINTS R BETTER. Not that they mean anything, of course - it's not like 1 D is actually exchangeable for anything. :-)

It's also clear that not everyone agrees with that when it comes to playing out endgame choices, and fair enough too.

Plus of course, reputation matters somewhat, if you want to get metagamey about it, sometimes there are good reasons to take a draw rather than go for a solo.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
@thorfi stop killing the site pls, play to win the game
thorfi (1023 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
*runs away to click draw in every game he's playing*

Destroying the site means I win, right? Wait, this isn't nomic? Dangit.

*unclicks draw, promises to play as if every game is Lusthog...* Wait, I already do that, usually. Ah well. :-)
Chumbles (791 D(S))
02 Jul 15 UTC
Most of the comments *waggles eyebrows at thorfi* and the game itself are excellent food for thought. I repeat, a sister site, a webdipwiki, with sections to which such could be transferred/added would be brilliant (cf my comments ref 'sticky' threads - also solved by this).

I confess I play the ratings game as well, so take/play for a draw if I don't think I can win. I can't see that that's wrong. But, @valis2501, it's rare for people to do otherwise so relax!#

I sticky thread for the ratings system and play times would also be a good home for my feelings about replacements. I've gone into some games simply because I can't stand to see someone get an easy win, but my rating suffers for it most times.
Chumbles (791 D(S))
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
God, I hope you can unpick the sense out of that last para... It's already 29c at 9 am.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
Don't worry Chumbles, I don't take anything you say seriously anyways ^.^
Chumbles (791 D(S))
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
Hah, check my win % vs yours! Valis ;¬)
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
yeah...PPSC Ancient Med gunboats...https://tinyurl.com/mcw82f7
"play to win the game" says the guy who mutes neighbouring countries ;-)

Thanks ATC and Capt for a fascinating end game. I'd been wanting to explore whether a rational low-risk two way draw was possible, and this game offered a great way to test it out. Two ways often come about through one person carebearing (as witnessed in the recent ODC), but can it be done without carebearing? I guess we still don't know.

The public draw votes mattered a great deal. Had the vote not been public, I would have withdrawn a while ago. But since Italy had grabbed Iberia I wanted to make sure Capt was on my side and needed to keep it up. Had Italy not drawn this turn, I would have cancelled my vote right now.

It's funny how these last turns seemed to hinge on Gal. Both Italy and Germany felt that they needed Gal to be able to properly defend against anothers solo. Which one has the better claim to that?
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
yes, I was completely serious when I said thorfi is killing the site. I totally don't feel like we're gonna have to start adding retarded "/s" to shit.
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
I'm surprised nobody seems to think Italy can solo. G/T have a temporary advantage, but because Italy can indefinitely hold Bohemia there is no long term line that can be held. If Italy manages to get units into Rum, Bla, and Arm, Ukraine has to support hold Sevastopol, meaning that Rum, Bud, Vie S Boh-Gal takes Gal and the next phase Italy can use Gal to cut Ukr while entering Bla, Arm S Rum-Sev and Bud-Rum to secure the 18th.

If Turkey is forced to disband Bla this phase, I believe Italy has the solo. Even if not, it's a bit riskier but if Italy can hold off the German solo threat for a short time he will inevitably win.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
GAL is more important for G/T to have. If Italy has Galicia, say, with the Vienna army which is replaced with Trieste, then it can be sacrificed to cut UKR which allows SEV to be taken and forever held and that gives 18.

If G/T own GAL, at best they can threaten RUM, but not effectively (there is only one set of moves that guarantees RUM for G/T, and it involves taking it with BLA, and it is a very silly moveset that doesn't allow for a German solo). In addition, even owning GAL does not allow the conquest of Bohemia, as MUN/SIL/GAL cannot overtake VIE/TYR/BOH.

The claim "I need this space to prevent an opposing solo" goes to G/T
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
damn, ninja'd by the ninja master
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
TM - If Italy had kept Gal in the Spring the solo would have been inevitable for the same reason as above - there is no line that can be held against him because he has indefinite control of Bohemia.
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
Great to hear we're thinking along the same lines, Valis :)
TheMinisterOfWar (509 D)
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
And a great hattip to Capt, who was able to get a threeway draw in this. His diplomacy was fantastic, and - as far as I could tell - he kept on having great relations with both Italy and Germany throughout. He got an optimal outcome with only minimal leverage - well done!
captainmeme (1632 DMod)
02 Jul 15 UTC
Also, @Chumbles - I think a wiki would be a great addition to the site. I'll lobby ATC to add one :)
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jul 15 UTC
You can meta-game or not. Though it is hard to game without any meta-, i play the game for itself, and the best way if measuring how each individual game turns out is the solo%. But if you always risk losing for a solo, you give up more solos to opponents, and when it is not possible to solo (in turkey's position here) a draw is preferable.

So even ignoring GR / 1 D (Daggers/Dippers?) you inherently bias the play by how you think about the game.

I would never deliberately exclude Turkey from the draw, unless i felt the Turkish player didn't deserve a place. If i had been their neighbour all game and they had really worked hard to get me to eliminate them. Made annoying moves which hurts themselves as much as me, provided angry press which left me hating them. Yeah if there every action seemed to be aimed at ruining my game, without helping them win; i would take pleasure in removing them - perhaps even to the point of throwing the game.

Because, as much as this game is about solos, it is also supposed to be fun. And i would place the fun i'm having above GR / Daggers any day!
Chumbles (791 D(S))
02 Jul 15 UTC
@Valis, loved the link. Shame you're one of those who somehow believes that winning a variant is either easy or substandard. Or is that because I won that Blind Dip game (ratingless) we were in? But I agree with you ref. Galicia; absolutely a key space - a bit like the central 4 squares in chess, it commands so much space/
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
I don't think Valis was implying soloing on any front is easy. Just that (a) variants, (b) gunboat and (c) PPSC are all substandard by comparison of full-press classic WTA.

My impression, for what its worth, is that variants aren't as heavily play-tested prior to their release, gunboat takes away an aspect that is critical to the original game (I can see the merit to gunboat because it does add a different dimension and showcases a player's tactical warfare skill) and PPCS has a dimension that makes having a defeat still taste like a victory.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Gunboat is ALL about learning to communicate without words. Which makes it a completely different game, full of subtlty not merely indicated by tactical skill, but also deep understanding of what moves make sense and what intention your enemies are trying to convey...


44 replies
Need Players for quick-phase diplomacy
I'll make the game when I have seven people, but I'd like to know who's up for a game of 15-30 min phases, classic.
0 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
01 Jul 15 UTC
EOG: King of The Hill special variant game
http://imgur.com/a/kS7uu

How did everyone think that went?
13 replies
Open
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jun 15 UTC
(+11)
Mafia IX: the Purge of the Jedi
See inside for details
2680 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
28 May 15 UTC
Lusthog
4 games: 25pts, 36hr, WTA, Quasi-Anon, HDV
Sign up inside...
58 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
01 Jul 15 UTC
Can you sue someone over a decade after a fatal mistake was made?
Title is pretty self-explanatory again.
19 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
26 Jun 15 UTC
OBERGEFELL v. HODGES
Landmark case by the SCOTUS grants equal marriage rights.
91 replies
Open
gaelgouma665 (0 DX)
01 Jul 15 UTC
Buy Real Passports,ID Cards,Driver's Licenses,Fake Money,SSN,Visas,Diplomas
Silenced spammer
1 reply
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
30 Jun 15 UTC
Fun Fact
Lots of people assume I'm a musician due to the way I look. Compliment? Insult? Fun fact for sure!

Perhaps I should either get a haircut or become a musician/singer, so no mistakes are made :-)
24 replies
Open
BluJayWarrior (100 D)
30 Jun 15 UTC
Game Processing Down, and I Have a Live Game
So, during the problem maintenance, I joined a live game that should've started an hour ago, so I've been waiting for the game to start. Anyone know what will happen once things get working again?
2 replies
Open
wjessop (100 DX)
27 Jun 15 UTC
Star Wars Discussion
The Force Awakens looms. And, after I just rewatched Star Wars Phantom Menace, wondering people's thoughts. Favourite film? Is Phantom Menace full of racism? Are the prequel trilogy really much worse than the original trilogy?
41 replies
Open
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