Reads Version 1:

I would like to start off my reads by saying that I have intentionally been as aggressive as possible thus far, and will continue to do so throughout the game. My reads, however, will show my true, unaggressive feelings, so if you feel like I am ‘hedging’ my reads because I am not as aggressive as in my conversation, then this is why.

ghug - ghug has only 1 good post, due to the fact that he was gone for most of the first day. He does exactly what I think every townie should do though, he gives a short explanation of his opinion of the procedural stuff, and then spends the majority of the time pointing out the scummy things that he has seen. His Ulysses post and rambling makes me worry for the quality of his trip, but he is here to play mafia now, and so I hope he will continue to churn out good quality posts. Very slight town.

y2kjbk - has barely posted anything. His few posts do not contain anything good. In fact, he spent his latest post expressing that he is considering agreeing with Krellin. That post had so much potential, as he could have expressed his opinion on the scumminess of people, or post reads or something. Instead, he gave a sorta, kinda, opinion on a procedure. Slight scum pending more content.

Chaqa - Chaqa’s vote for himself was really weird, but is understandable from a frustrated vanilla townie. Since then, he has contributed little though. I would like to see a lot from Chaqa to reconcile his weird vote, but until then, very slight scum.

Krellin - Krellin has definitely been against the grain, which in itself is not scummy, but some of the things he has been advocating for are scummy. Krellin style is also just a bit scummy to me (although this is probably more a difference in style). However, I think that this very well could be Krellin being Krellin. He is really hard to get a read on if he is scummy or just Krellin. Which is worrisome, and could cause problems later in the game. If he dies day 1, I wouldn’t be too concerned, because it would make our jobs a lot easier later in the game. Overall, slight scum.

semck83 - Has not really posted a whole lot, but what he has posted has either been procedural, or some valid scumhunting points. Posting enough to not be a lurker, but not enough to be considered town. Null.

Maniac - His voting Chaqa early I find as suspicious, but I guess that was supposed to be a joke or something, I can never tell with Maniac whether he means something seriously or as a joke. His post on WIFOM and poker has been glorified, but it really isnt alignment indicative at all. His reads thus far are actually really good because he identifies both scummy and townie things, although on a lot of the actions he gives both scummy attributes and townie attributes, so this might be a form of hedging. Anyway, he is being a lot more productive than last game day 1, so that is good. Overall, I would say pretty null.

CaptainMeme - as guak has pointed out, captainmeme has posted one post, and most of it is fluff. Maybe meme is scared to say anything after he was lynched day 1 last game?? Null pending more content.

WardenDresden - I came out hard against WD because he was making an easy vote and not putting any reasoning in. He still has not posted any reasoning for his vote (although I think he said that his vote was a joke vote) and was a little defensive, and I stand by what I say. Since then, WD has unvoted and offered an opinion of procedural stuff. No scumhunting done. Slight scum.

Guak - guak’s initial reads were quality and provided new insights. He has followed this up with short simple, but quality concerns that are specific and challenge people to post and discuss. Slight to moderate town lean.

Bo_sox48 - Huge improvements from last game, eagerness to help out and improve. His concern of criticisms on himself has some people worried, but I think he is going through exactly what I went through last game. Slight to moderate town.

uclabb - Starts out by bringing up WIFOM, which is good because it starts discussion, but I feel like way too much time has been spent around it and other procedural things, so it seems like more of a distraction than a conversation starter. Overall, uclabb has been posting mainly good stuff, but regardless of alignment, I think uclabb would post good stuff. If he is scum, he would post ‘good stuff’ that doesnt actually help catch scum - like procedural arguments. Hard read, but very slight town read.

pjmansfield99 - Hasnt said a whole lot yet. His initial reads didnt really have any substance. Then he voted Krellin because Krellin suggested a bad idea. Nothing really alignment indicative here. Would love to hear more from PJ. Null.

ILN - I gave a short case on ILN on the last page but let me sum it up for you here. ILN has done some scummy things: vote krellin based solely on instincts, hedged an accusation on WD, avoided posting any reasoning on his krellin vote when confronted. Still not sure if he is scum, or just a newbie having a hard time grasping the game. Slight to moderate scum.

Top 3 town: Guak, Bo, ghug
Top 3 scum: ILN, Krellin, WD

With that, I should probably get a vote on the board, so ##VOTE ILN pending an explanation from him and a show of independent thought and scum-hunting.

I would also like to echo guak in saying that when people post reads it really helps to create discussion and make the town more transparent.

@ILN - you really need to explain your krellin vote fully particularly the 'human' instinct remark. Were you quoting something I missed here ; joking; or what? I'm not suspecting you of anything right now, I just want an explanation.

Krellin, I know you're not stupid, but you say stupid things, which makes me wonder if they are contrived stupid. You seem to focus on day 1 lynch being bad because it usually has bad results - ie a govt Official dies. But we all know this is breaking eggs to make our omelette. The end result is we get discussion flowing, we accuse people, they respond, sometimes we pick up voting patterns, sometimes the scum slip. None of this is possible without the pressure of day one lynchs. You have now sparked discussion, you have accepted a day one lynch is going to happen. Move on.

I also find your attitude about making yourself a victim and retreating telling. You seem to be creating excuses not to participate about substance.

I also find your constant ridiculing of reads significant. By ridiculing others it gives you an excuse to not post reads yourself. We need reads from everybody. Even f they are terrible and ill thought out. I shouldn't have to explain why we need these.

In short, stop trying to paint yourself as some sort of victim who has been silenced for expressing contrarian views and post some views, not on procedures and fluffy stuff. Tell us exactly what you think of us - you usually don't need a second invite for that.

Until you do ##vote krellin

Having caught up on what's happened so far, my first instinct seems to be correct, I'm very happy with my vote on Krellin. I don't want to totally rehash everybody's arguments but it seems very clear to me, he's being defensive, he's ignoring the arguments that Squigs, Uclabb and myself have put forward about why its a good idea to have a lynch on D1 and Uclabb's points on his contradictions for me, nail the coffin shut.

I'll catch up on others later. But if Chaqa is still online - can you clarify your whole "waiting" stance? Not really sure what you were trying to achieve by your random throwaway comments but whatever it is, we really need the information now to try and gain something.

I was hoping for a little more discussion before posting my reads, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen tonight. This game has been unnervingly quiet, and I very much don't like that. I encourage people, especially those I read negatively, to respond to my reads and start to get more discussion flowing.

1. ghug - Still number one. Still da best. Townie town town.
2. y2kjbk - Very quiet. He argued in favor of a no-lynch, which is totally uncool. It's possible that he's mafia trying to get krellin's idea to gain traction, but there's really not enough here to mean anything. Null.
3. Chaqa - The whole declaring himself scum thing is a WIFOMy joke and should not be seriously considered, but the not doing anything else is seriously uncool. Talk, dude. Scummish.
4. Krellin - I posted my thoughts on him up above. He made a point of saying that mafia wouldn't stick their necks out there on day one when arguing against lynching and preceded to do just that while arguing in favor of something clearly anti-town and not providing alternatives or really trying to help at all. We know he's tricky, and we know he's willing to use his krellinness to his advantage, but his actions strike me more as obnoxious and unhelpful than scummy right now. Krellin, do something useful. Teensy bit scum.
5. semck83 - Pretty quiet, but productive when he's been around. Productivity is pretty easy to muster up when you're not making many posts, and nothing he said struck me as particularly towny. Paragon of nullishness.
6. Squigs44 - Again, I posted my thoughts on him above. He just prefaced his reads with some defensive nonsense that seemed to be an attempt to excuse some hedging, and I don't find his reads particularly insightful or interesting. Scumptious.
7. Maniac - He's always gonna have dumb ideas, but he looks pretty good here. The poker insights were useful, and I've liked his reads. I don't often have townreads, but I think I may have one here.
8. CaptainMeme - Next to nothing. Lurking is bad. Don't do it. Stop. Null with a side of "vig, kill this guy if he doesn't speak up."
9. WardenDresden - He made a joke y'all, calm the fuck down. He has since been a bit too lurkful, which I am not particularly fond of, but his play reminds me more of the innocent Warden we lynched day 2 of mafia 2 than the guilty one we lynched day 2 of mafia 3. I guess we'll find out when we lynch him tomorrow. Slight town.
10. Guak - He's guak being guak. No creative writing to analyze yet, but there hasn't been much of anything from anyone, so I can't really fault him for that. Null for now.
11. Bo_sox48 - He's been helpful and productive, much moreso than last game. As human as any politician can possibly be, which is to say slightly.
12. uclabb - I think this man might be a lizard. It's too early to tell, really, but he's been much more focused on pushing his WIFOM agenda than he has been on throwing votes around and generating scumhunting-related discussion. This is a big deviation from his play in previous games. I'm going to adopt a wait and see approach here, but for now, his features are strikingly reptilian.
13. pjmansfield99 - Very little of note here. Null.
14. ILN - He seems new. Misguided, but not really lizardlike. That's not to say that he seems particularly humanlike either, just that we shouldn't necessarily read his inexperience as scumminess. Null for now.

People I read as null, do something! People I read as scum, prove you aren't. Also, do something! People I read as town, continue doing things!

Really busy night, but I hope to post reads early morning. We'll see. For now, I completely accept the null read, which I unfortunately deserve.

@Ghug - I'm afraid I'm also accepting of the null read, again I'm getting caught in the timezone issues that when I'm actually online no-one else is and most of the conversation is taking place overnight.

Well, I'm up, PJ. I don't have time to do reads till later, but is there something you'd like to discuss?

I am too. Share some thoughts.

@pj - I'd like to see your reads mate.

Post update:

Capt 1
Y2 3
Semck 5
WD 5
PJ 5
ILN 5
Ghug 8
Guak 12
Chaqa 13 mostly accusing himself
Maniac 12
Bo 25
Uclabb 28
Squib 34
Krellin 42

Is there a reason why you call Squiggs Squib, Maniac?

*Squigs

The people who haven't voted are not helping the govt, your pensions will be revoked if you do not contribute. Voting is important, sitting back with the reptiles plays into their hands and allows them to manipulate the govt. I expect everyone who hasn't voted to vote, next time they are on. With the exemption of krellin, whom I expect to do the honourable thing and not vote at all. I, and perhaps others will see sitting on the fence as being a reptilian trait.

Also, if I were to advise our sharp-shooter, I suggest taking out the lurkers. Come on lurkers, you're either with us, or you're against us.

@semck - typo, it happens, but then I don't have to tell you that...

Couple of other things... My tag voting idea wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

Someone asked me about what I read into krellin's no vote. If krellin doesn't vote at all I see it as govt alignment, it probably wouldn't carry much weight but it will be a tick in hi favour. Others not voting, I view as reptilian alignment.

Maniac,

True, but you were doing it very consistently. I was just curious.

@semck, so I'm consistently bad - shoot me.


Actually please don't.

lol. Just explaining my confusion. I have no plans to shoot anybody.

Hi all, bit fluffy in places but my comments so far. I’m really sticking to my guns on Krellin as a lizard, outside of that I haven’t seen a huge amount of scummy behaviour.
Ghug – Like his contributions and always have (except when playing against him). He articulates a lot of my arguments far better than I can – note his comments on last page to Krellin. However I do disagree with his argument regarding Squigs, I genuinely thing Squigs is trying hard and I don’t really see his argument for voting against him. I’m sticking him as still null. (but bonus points for the Ulysses quote)
Y2K – Really don’t like the fact that he doesn’t support lynching someone on Day 1, I really don’t see how people don’t see this as a town play, it makes absolutely zero sense to me. Maybe trying to offer some support to Krellin for some reason? Slight scum lean
Chaqa – Seems to be playing in a “Maniac M3 style”. Don’t understand his whole vote for himself track and it appears to have achieved very little, unless I’m totally missing something. However strikes me as more of a townie trait weirdly as I don’t think a Mafia would come out this blatantly and try something this foolish. (yes of course it could be double bluff) but for now slight town lean.
Krellin – Lot of posting, very defensive and totally disagree with his pretend to hide in a shell comment. The whole point of the game is to debate and discuss things, running away isn’t going to solve the situation. All of his comments just also appear ever so slightly off to me, a bit like he’s trying too hard. That plus his comments regarding no lynch and how we can never be 100% sure have kept him at the top of my scum list. He’s very clever and I think he’s deliberately trying to come off as not for some reason.
Semck – Null, nothing,nada
Squigs – Obviously trying hard and consistent with his previous playing style. I really don’t see it in the negative fashion that Ghug tried to point out and sticking him in a slight town read.
Maniac – So far liking him a bit more than I did last game with his crazy wacko idea’s. ;-) Seems keen to push people to comment and certainly interested in making the game advance with discussion, very slight town read.
Captainmeme – Null, nothing, nada
WD – Null, nothing really. Read his joke as a joke and not much else to go on.
Guak – Not loads of detail of why I feel this but town lean, just so far his attitude and comments strike me as positive and in right direction.
Bo Sox – Much better than last game, keen to play and even if perhaps not on the money yet, definitely not lurking and making an effort. Slight town lean.
Uclabb – Stand by exactly what I said previously, this guy likes to be centre of the group. Nothing right now yells out at me whether he’s scummy or not but he’s certainly a dominating character. I disagree with him regarding the last minute vote switching for similar reasons to Maniac. As Mafia last time our biggest fuck-up’s came when we were put under the pressure by the last minute throw rounds. However I do agree with his pushing on Krellin who is my highest scum read at the moment
ILN – Seems a little confused and appears to not have the chance to read much. Perhaps because he’s reading Krellin as lizardlike I’m more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt but I don’t see him as scummy yet. Null read.

Sorry guys, I had an extremely busy day yesterday. I'll try to get around to this shortly.

So, some brief thoughts.

ghug: No read yet.

uclabb: ghug made an interesting point: it's been eerily quiet. I got to thinking about why this would be. Why wasn't it quiet last time? Well, basically, several people talked a lot. YJ and PE, and they're not playing. ghug, and he was away. And.... uclabb. And uclabb, I think, has been pretty quiet. OK, sure, he has 28 posts according to Mafia. But, as others have pointed out, they're not very conversation-stirring posts, not the kind of conversation we need. And he's been quiet now for quite awhile -- he was much more active on Saturday than Sunday I'd say. Maybe there's a reason for this. But I'm a little perturbed by how ucla's playing. On the other hand, he's done some good reading of krellin and stuff, and his discussion wasn't bad. I'll say neutral, but I'm very cautious of what a lizzard uclabb could achieve.

krellin -- what to say? Somebody said we wouldn't be too bad off if he were our townie mislynch. I agree, so far. But come on krellin! I know you can do better than this. Give us some reads. Right now you seem like slight scum.

Squigs -- still my top scum read. He seems different from last time. Look at the top of page two -- that's just incredible defensiveness. He seems absolutely terrified of uclabb's attack, even though it's a really small attack, almost just a side point I'd say. He mounts this big defense.

He *has* done a few helpful things, analyzing other players like Chaqa and krellin. But he seems concerned about people's perceptions, and as others have mentioned, too interested in the identity of power roles.

PJMansfield -- not too much to say so far. He seems reasonably townie, but he hasn't posted much. I'm going with null.

ILN -- very little engagement, odd posts. Scum lean.

Captainmeme -- Almost nothing so far. Null.

Bo_sox: very town so far. Helpful, thoughtful posts with good analysis. Obviously could just be playing strongly for mafia, but uniformly sending town signs thus far.

Chaqa: Obviously the bartender had a little too many of his own wares. Playing very oddly right now, and either scum or the least useful townie imaginable. Slight scum lean.

Guak: Like bo, he hasn't posted a ton but it's been helpful stuff. No concerns so far. Very slight town.

WD and y2k: I've seen too little from them so far, though WD's stuff has been higher quality. Very slight town and very slight scum, respectively.

I'd consider krellin or ILN, but for now, ##VOTE Squigs.

Well, feel free to kill me off. God forbid a guy have a different opinion.

Maniac, you want to accuse people day one andget their "read", go for it. And then last second UNVOTE...and you will have the same result.

I can not believe the number of people here that have played this game already that say, because of the mere fact that I am putting up contrary opininions, I must be a lizard. I thought we were supposed to generate discussion? I thought we were supposed to *provoke* people to get a read on them?

Go ahead – kill me. I *assure* you that you will be sorry with the result of my death.

Sorry for being MIA this weekend for most of Day 1. I'm caught up and have reads though.

1. y2kjbk: I'm town, I'll try to prove it to you all in the coming days while I'm alive.

2. guak: encouraged by his posts and his encouraging of others to post more content. seems to be actively evaluating people. likely town.

3. Squigs: same as guak while being an even more active poster. likely town.

4. ghug: less posts than guak/squigs, but sounds like earnest town nonetheless to me with his posts/reads. likely town.

5. Maniac: I have a gut suspicion there's something lacking from his posts. He seems to be actively discussing how we should go after scum and lurkers without contributing much of his own specific reads in his posts. Maybe the name is pushing me to this thought, but SK comes to mind when I read Maniac's posts.

6. krellin: I had a hard time distinguishing krellin's behavior from the two times I played with him, where both times we were on opposite teams. My gut says he's town, but I wouldn't put money on it. I did start to come over to his idea of not lynching someone today, but since most others are fervently for a lynch, we all have to be to ensure the town has the majority of voices in the deciding vote.

7. semck83: null to scum on him. He's trying too hard to sound good and helpful in his limited posts without giving much info at all.

8. pjmansfield: null to town on him. I was encouraged by both his reads post and his open true declaration that the town should be way less averse to dying than the mafia should be.

9. WardenDresden: I get a town feel from him. He sounds pretty similar to how he was in Mafia II when he was town and I hammered on him until he got lynched :/. Don't want to do that again, as I've expressed.

10. bosox: null to town, he seems to be putting in a lot of effort in his reads this game. He's putting on a very nice act if he is in fact scum.

11. Chaqa: null to scum on him. Time will tell what his little self-voting stunt is all about. I don't want to take that alone and call Chaqa scum quite yet. Need more info from him.

12. uclabb: null to town, same as bosox. Definitely putting the effort in.

Null on captain and ILN. Couldn't glean much from what they've posted yet.

Based on all that, I'm going to throw my vote down on ##VOTE semck83. Looking forward to his reads he has promised to give later.

krellin, for crying out loud, can't you read?

We don't WANT to kill you off. We want you to participate at some level other than whining and sobbing to yourself about how unloved you are and how people disagree with you. You have interesting perspectives on stuff -- GIVE US SOME READS.

There I go cross-posting with the guy I voted for :/

Oh, I forgot to read Maniac. Maniac is confusing as always. I feel like he's maybe trying a little harder this time, and that concerns me, especially given how few scumreads I gave out otherwise. Slight scum.

semck - I *have* given a couple reads - you all just ignore what I say. You all have jumped on teh idiotic bandwagon "Oh, krellin said something crazy - we can't listen to him...he must be scum - let's kill him."

I can't cut through the sheeple group-think - so fuck it. I'm not goign to try. If you all are just going to dismiss everything I say - then kill me. Not interested in this.

And when you do kill me Day 1, I will be the perfect martyr for the cuase to provie that low-evidence day 1 lynchings are stupid and dangerous for the town.

Be done with it.

##VOTE krellin ##END

tired fo teh bullshit. hvae a busy day at work.

Then would you please resign to the GM right now so you can be replaced by somebody who doesn't suck?