I also just noticed this quote from Italy:

"I also feel that if you drive / distract the lynch away from DeathLlama then you must be scum buddies with him, trying to protect him. So if he is lynched and his is flipped scum, then I would be Lynching you next."

What is this? Townies defend who they think is town, scum defend whoever they want.

@Y2k: I'm at work so posting quickly: I didn't vote for thdfrance, that was simply me quoting ghug. I posted a note to clarify this with an ##unvote attached if you're using a findit search.

ok, noted wjessop.

GM NOTE: if someone copy-pastes someone else's post and leave a vote in the post, I will consider it a vote coming from the copy-paster.

So getting back to the discussion on whether or not the Vig should shoot on the first night. The argument for the Vig shooting early on seems to be that the Vig shot is the only completely Town kill that we have access to, and therefore we should use it ASAP and not try to alter what the Vig does with his kill.

I don't have a problem with sitting back and letting the Vig do his thing, but shooting early on doesn't help in any actual way. Reads this early on aren't usually very accurate and in many ways we waste one of the most powerful tools we have by killing a townie with the Vig shot, ESPECIALLY so early on. My only advice would be to be confident that the person you're shooting is scum, and I don't see how that can be the case so early on in the game, but perhaps I'm wrong on that.

Just to be clear, I advocated for discussing neither the target nor the timing of the Vig kill.

We have quite a lot to get through so bear with me.

@Ghug: ON Page 4 you asked me a question, “Why does it matter how much jokeposting there was?” Honestly it doesn’t matter, joke all you want. However this conversation began with my observation of DL’s play style on Page 3. When asked to clarify I did and as the conversation progressed on page 4 I noticed quite a lot of defense so kept asking questions. The conversation progressed into DL’s all caps, angry, reply. Naturally I voted for him because I believe I touched a nerve. Call this conversation whatever you want, but I believe the conversation gave me enough to vote for him so I did.

@Maniac: Why do you come online and do the following: 1) make a silly introduction, 2) comment on the proper way to say ‘bottom’, 3) tell Ghug to moderate himself (why should anyone have to moderate themselves?), 4) make a post containing a small edit. It seems to be you are anchoring because of your trial and want to make the necessary post counts (5). I wager we see very little of maniac now that he has made the post counts. What have you done that is useful and progressed this conversation? Why post at all if you have nothing to say?

@LittleItaly: A lot of your posts seem to buddying. However, I am interested in hearing more from you. So despite saying you hated reading me and DL’s conversation you felt like you gained enough from it to vote for DL? Also can you explain your reasoning behind me, OB, and Meme being town reads a bit more? Any other reason for these individuals (myself included) being town other than being respectful and calm? I can understand the limitations of experience, but trust me that does not matter.

@WJE: No one is going to moderate themselves for you. If that means you can’t answer questions because of it well that seems like a cop out to me and I am not going to buy that excuse. You said you understand why Italy said I, OB, and Meme are town, but never really explained why you felt that way? So why do you?

@HR: I never called it tunneling if you read my final replies on Page 4 I explain why I let the conversation go on as long as it did and like I said I believe I got valuable intelligence. What have you contributed to this game other than a few snide comments at my investigation and a shaky small post claiming you debunked town reads?

@yoyo: Where are you?

@Brankl: Where are you?

@Chaqa: Where are you?

@Uclabb: Contribute something. Nothing you have done so far can be considered a progression of the conversation.

@Guak: Where are you?

7 pages? Jeez. I love mafia.

I'm starting to read now, i'll post more after.

I'm here! I came in pretty late because I went to see Jurassic World. Loved it. I'll catch up sometime during the day.

@ND: I said understood why LittleItaly might think that because they have been posting calm, helpful responses, which could be taken to mean they are productive town members (this is what LittleItaly means); I understand why he might think that, especially in contrast to DeathLlama9's posts which as he admits have been joke-ridden and not necessarily productive. But me understanding his point of view doesn't mean I agree (you're right, I could have offered some counter argument to develop the conversation but I have been at work and I can't address every thing), of course being calm and measured is not a clear sign of belonging to town in any way. I've already said that, and have said I have not picked up any obvious reads or tells yet.

At least I'm here and talking and trying to work things out, it's a shame more people who committed to this haven't really participated yet. Some people havent even arrived, and Brankl seemed keen to join in our discussion and then hasn't bothered to be involved even though he's been online. Why not join in if you come online?

@WJE: I totally agree about Brankl and called him and the other lurks out. We've already heard from both yoyo and chaqa at least. Thank you for your clarification to my other point.

No worries and thanks. I'm enjoying this, it's intetedting how picky people are and I'm reading back on what others are saying and trying to work out why people are saying *what* they're saying and how, and then why they *dont* say anything.

Unless Brankl can explain why he hasn't bothered to get involved after his first message despite that s/he keeps coming online, I'm ##vote Brankl

@WJE - This has already been gone over. Even ND agrees I haven't been making jokes since the first half of page two. I feel like your view on me is a bit static.

Interesting point about Brankl - they spectated all of the last game (their words, not mine), so he can't pull the newb card because he knows how webdip maf works. Either they've been afk or they're scum.

I think after reading Captainmeme's post, I am getting a feeling that I know very little of the meta to accuse anyone. But I am still going to keep my vote on DL on the basis of my gut feeling.

Regarding the Town Reads: I now understand that it wasn't intelligent of me to have been doing so already and with little to no proof. I can only request you to treat them as my gut feeling from their posts so far.

@ND I think it was more like good posts and bad posts comparison in my mind, and then assumed good posters are town and vice versa. Which is flawed in case of double-guessing as I have learned from the posts that HR, OB and Meme had posted.

I think I am not qualified enough to contribute effectively to the discussion. So unless I am able to do so, I will not try to make posts that may influence other folks decision. Please treat this post as a start of my D1 interaction with you guys.

Vote:
##DeathLlama9

Reason:
Gut feeling that he is mafia, would change for better Lynch decisions if available.

@Captainmeme I think that our Vigilante shouldn't take a shot until they are certain that the shot wouldn't be a total waste. If they want to take out an inactive player, or someone who they feel are scum based on the scum reads of their own, then they should be free to do so, and we shouldn't influence their decision. So if none of us talk about what the Vigilante should do or shouldn't do, then they would automatically do what they feel is best. However, we can discuss which path is more efficient. Which I think we are doing at present, so its cool.

I don't like the fact that I have to scroll up and down the edit box, so my posts could be ordered weirdly. I don't know how to solve it, may be type it all in a notepad and then copy paste?

I don't like this interface :(

@Italy - Yeah, there are better interfaces for playing Mafia.

Also @Italy - Explain this quote? "I also feel that if you drive / distract the lynch away from DeathLlama then you must be scum buddies with him, trying to protect him." It feels weird that you're a.) saying that no townie would protect me and b.) it seems like you're trying to get nobody to defend me, even though that might lead to more info for town and better reads for all of us.

Also why did your reasoning turn from "posts too many jokes and is distracting/anti-town" to "gut feeling"?

@DeathLlama9: wow. It was an example of LittleItaly's argument, that was the contrast he was making. I'm not arguing about whether your posts were 'jokes' or not. One person's joke is another person's tumbleweed. My view of you isn't static, on the contrary, you have presented distinct changes in your styles of messaging so far.

Oh really? What are they?

OK, I'm caught up. I may have skimmed a bunch of those stupid joke posts arguments, because they're pointless and I can always revisit them later if needed, but otherwise I'm not getting huge scum vibes quite yet. I do agree ghug seems off from his normal Day 1 self.

I totally agree that the vigilante should hold his shot night 1. We only have 14 or 15 players, so we have few mislynches. I didn't do the math, but I'd imagine it's something like 3 or 4? Vigilante should absolutely not shoot until we have a better idea of who is scum.

Oh. ##Vote ghug until I see something better.

@Chaqa - it's three unless Anakin isn't activated.

Nonsense posts; "joke posts"; "joke votes"; lengthy trivial debate with ND about the existence of joke posts and joke votes; evolving to more serious posts where you are being more articulate and careful, as well as slightly aggressive.

I think you feel like you've bwen typecast in the way you started messaging here, maybe you feel like you stand out, and you would naturally be feeling unhappy about that.

Oh, another thing I remembered. Wjessop, if you really have that much of a problem with bad language, you've joined the wrong game. Things will get pretty heated later on, especially if I live.

@WJE - I have no idea how the first three categories are different. The fourth category has to do with me being tired and kind of upset last night, the fifth category is how I'm probably going to play the rest of the game.

@Chaqa: I think the bad language issue is redundant; if it's in the game abd it's part of the act, fine, it's in jest. But if you wouldn't deal with disrespectful language in a conversation in real life, you shouldn't have to online. And the moderation that some people claim this will lead to works both ways. But thanks for your advice.

@DeathLlama9: no worries at all! :) ...it's not personal, it's just a game. I didn't mind your jokes. It helps lighten things. I'm glad you agree that your first approach has changed/evolved into the fifth category, which is also probably a better way for us to succeed.

@Chaqa: when you say you're voting for ghug "until you see something better", what do you mean?

IMO there should be three categories - jokes/yelling at ND/right now

##VOTE LITTLEITALY until my questions get answered

I mean that until I see someone acting scummier.

"I also feel that if you drive / distract the lynch away from DeathLlama then you must be scum buddies with him, trying to protect him."

So the logic which I thought was good enough, is this:
1) DeathLlama had scummy behavior.
2) DeathLlama had made a mistake and if he is scum, then his scum buddies would try to save him by questioning his voters.

Second question:
Also why did your reasoning turn from "posts too many jokes and is distracting/anti-town" to "gut feeling"?

You are trying to prove that your scummy behavior needn't and shouldn't be considered as a scum tell, on the basis that a town member could have joked too. So you are not proving your innocence, but are proving that you needn't be guilty. And you succeeded in doing so.

That doesn't however mean that you are not guilty. And for lack of a better Lynch target, and also based on your scummy behavior (according to the perspective of someone who doesn't have prior Meta knowledge) I feel that you could be mafia. Aka my Gut feeling.

I am taking lot of effort to post properly, and I will try to do so from hence forth. Also requesting you guys to ignore the online symbol, as I may be afk and still have the tab open. I will post a reply whenever I read the thread, and I have the time to do so.