bump

steephie22*

steephie22

Any reason this needs to be bumped?

well, i do'n't want to seek for this thread so long :)
and i like to discuss the games after they've finished so i'm waiting for our second game to finish too...

There is a global tab for in-game press that comes in really handy for discussing games when finished.

Not so handy in my experience because you don't get the message notification tab at the top for finished games and it doesn't show on the home page under My Games, so often people don't check back in to have such a discussion.

However, it is just as easy to create a new thread to discuss a specific league game or ask when the next game is going to start or whatever.

yeah, well, maybe you guys are right...

Just to let you know, Game 1 of League D3 has finished.
gameID=49757

just trying to confirm you got my e-mail, gjdip? We have a game paused for a about a week now. One of our players dropped out. Game 2 is fine since he was eliminated by this point, but Game 1 we need a replacement.

We are league C3.

steephie22

D1 game 1 is also complete - gameID=49807. It seams that a lot of these games are ending in draws. I guess the decision is similar, that people don't want to take a risk at loosing everything.

My analysis in this game was that if I stabbed England to go for the Solo, Turkey would actually get the Solo.The other 2 players thought the same way, so we agreed to draw (In our discussion in the global chat).

(I goofed up, I was england. I meant if I stabbed France)

joey1, the other factor to consider is if you solo game 1, there is a good chance you'd be eliminated quickly in the next couple of games since we are all allowed to consider league standings in our decisions and having 12 league points puts a very large target on your back. Better a medium sized draw so that more people have smaller sized targets on their backs.

But I'm sure those particular gloves will come off in games 3 and 4.

Where do we find the league standings?

Well, you can calculate it for yourself, but you can also find them here:

http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/The-php-League/leagues-winter-2011

I need to get it updated for the recent games that have concluded.

Can I ask about everyone's overall experiences in these league games? Do most of you feel good about the games that you've played in it?

I hate drawing. that's all I have to say. Playing strategically for draws feels wrong to me

If you have a chance to win then I agree with you. If you can't win and you don't play for a draw then you're wrong and playing badly.

I try not to stab if I can't win. And in three way draws, which mine have been and are shaping up to be, anyone can get the win really. To clarify, equal-ish draws, not like a 15-15-4 deal or anything

Sometimes 15-15-4 makes sense. I mean, one of those 15s could be in a weaker position and need the 4 to make a stalemate. Draws are not a bad outcome. Entering a game hoping to get a draw is a poor attitude, you should play to win.

In any case, still looking for a replacement in our league.

I have really enjoyed the league games. It is fun playing multiple games with the same group of people and really getting to know them.

I know others have had really bad experiences though. I don't know for sure, but I think it is often based in being upset that a single game goes the way it does because of league standings where outside the league it would not have. And I think that is just something you have to accept as part of the league games or you shouldn't play them. It isn't for everyone, but for who it is for, it is great fun. Similar to gunboat games. Some really like them and some don't consider them Diplomacy.

I would say that's not a very accurate example of the problem. Gunboats have nothing to do with the meta-gaming problem caused by the League standings table. My observations are:
- if you do well (3/4-way draws) in both your first two games, chances are you'll be ganged-up in the next. If you're unlucky and the last two games move together in time, you risk being taken out in both... just in case
- if you do poorly in both your first two games, chances are you'll be eliminated in the others also. Noone wants to help bring you back from relegation, let alone give you a chance for promotion/winning the league.

With the new bonus rewards, we might see some changes in the dynamic because now league position means bonus points so playing for number 1 gets you more than playing just to move up the ladder.

Hmm, which exactly is the formula doesn't really change the fact it's outside the individual game :)

I am not trying to get people to leave. I always looked at the League as the main tournament here. As such, I believe, it is important that it is played as 'clean' as possible, as an example to how all games should be played. Individual games should be more than outside of the game dealings. Can you imagine how most 4th game EOGs would look like: "If I got player X killed, even if I also died but there was at least a three-way draw, I would get promoted. He was ENG, I was TUR, so I decide to..."

I don't know how, but this has to go anon, and a lot of players will come back.

We have an anon one. It's the GFDT and the Master's. The league is perfect as it is and you will see more people leave than return if you eliminate the social and light Meta aspects of it. It isn't for everyone, but it is unique in that it is the only non-anon one. If you make it anon, then it is just yet another anon tournament.

There are big differences between the tournaments irregardless of the non-anon factor.

there are much people who say a 6wd is better then a solo in the first game because with a solo you're dead for other games, what do you guys think about that??
i would go for a solo or a 2wd, maybe you're the target for following games but that'll be untill other people get in the top, and if you draw you maybe don't get in the top...