I engage people on actual things, Maniac. If he has an issue with swearing, that's a trait of wjessop the person, not wjessop the town/scum. I'm much more interested in why he ignored that I had attacked thd and instead questioned DeathLlama about it, so that's what I'm going to probe on. If he decides to avoid answering the question again based on some bullshit like the fact that I just said "bullshit", that's a different story.

Hi everyone,

# Introduction:

I am new to this website, and this interface (@_@). Lets just say that I will need some time to adjust to it.

This is my fourth overall game and second on the internet. I have been part of a NOC game in another forum, which ended recently. And we won before LYLO. My other two games were with friends in my school. One of my friend learned of Dethy and we wanted to spend a boring class by scribbling notes. He won both the games and the rest of us have decided to learn about Mafia games to beat him ^_^

I see myself as someone who is learning about the game, and may not follow a few things that you guys know. Like I don't know what is "Pewing". Also my technical knowledge of the game would be meh, I basically work on the logical aspects.

Although in the NOC game, I have 8/10 hunches right about players. But since I was unable to explain myself properly, those hunches were ignored. However, I have realized that analyzing is better than guessing. But I haven't really understood on how to identify scums.

# First Impression:
*Joke Begins*
I hate DeathLlama9 and ND for making me read four pages +_#
I also hate Maniac for those advanced English words
*Joke Ends*

I like OB_Gyn_Kenobi and Captainmeme for informative posts. Other than that I haven't made any concrete impression of folks yet.

I hope it answers your questions @thdFrance.
*Joke Begins*
France and Italy can be friends ;)
*Joke Ends*

Other than that, I don't like long posts. I try to keep my posts small and concise (helps others read and Tl;dr sucks).
And I think that our vigilante shouldn't kill on N0 / N1?
And we should vote for someone on D1.

Thats about it, I have a few questions though. But I guess it warrants a new post.

In retrospect, I think I could have posted the introduction in the sign-up thread. *shrugs*

Questions:
1) Is this a NOC game? Or are we allowed to talk outside this thread?
2) Are the scums allowed to talk outside the thread during the day and night?
3) Who is WardenDresden wrt this game? Co-Host?
4) What is Pewing?
5) What is Tunneling?
5) Do all Jedi Council members have a chance of being Anakin?
6) Are we in Night 0 or Day 1 now? Since we are voting, I assume it is Day 1? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it *shrugs*
7) Why don't we have Darth Vader and Palpatine as scums?

Thanks in Advance ^_^

Game Analysis:

I didn't like DeathLlama9 doing the jumping around with his posts. I think he is either scum who did a mistake early on and is trying to correct it. Or is a bad town member. Unless he is a power role, I think we should Lynch him.

I feel ND, OB and Captainmeme are town. They are the ones I can tell with certainty, I am not sure about others.

Vote:

#Lynch DeathLlama9

@LittleItaly: It seems we're the only ones awake on this thread, I guess you're EU like me?

Okay I read through the OP and have found answers to most of the questions, so just putting up an edited version of the questions. Also re-voting as we are supposed to put double octothorpes.

2) Is the Quick Topic thread accessible for scums during day and night?
4) What is Pewing?
5) What is Tunneling?
6) Do all Jedi Council members have a chance of being Anakin?
7) Why don't we have Darth Vader and Palpatine as scums? || joke ^_^ ||

##Vote DeathLlama9

@wjessop: I am from Italy, duh! ^_^

Well I am actually from India (GMT +5:30), its a country in Asia to the east of EU. But I like Italy and Italian culture, so I figured why not ;)

@LI,
2. The quicktopic thread is always open, but the rules state that the mafia are only allowed to actually post there at night.
4. I've never heard of pewing. Where did someone say that?
5. Tunneling is focusing on one player as scum to the point where it negatively impacts your ability to hunt for other scum.
6. Anakin has already been chosen, but he received the vanilla town PM ("You are a Jedi Council member!"). Anyone who got that PM could be Anakin.
7. Darth Vader is what Anakin becomes if he turns. Palpatine is one of the scum.

Can you elaborate on why you think DeathLlama is scum and why you think the three you listed are town?

@wjessop,you're here and you haven't answered my question. Why did you ask DL about thd and ignore me? Care to provide your thoughts on what's happened thus far?

Ok, I've read back through everything and it seems people are fond of repeating questions that have already been asked *and* answered. But, to answer thdfrance and ghug:

@thd: Hello! Thanks for asking about the newer players. As I already said, I'm new here but do have knowledge of the game outside. We played Mafia a couple of times in my university hall, though it obviously worked differently in a number of ways. However, (if I can get away with using the same joke twice)......I probably won't be drinking for the whole duration while we play/post here, for starters : ) ...unless you advise it? Does drinking help you?

@ghug: I already provided an answer to your question, which was already asked of me by DeathLlama9. I didn't see the need to repeat myself twice. But, as you insist, I'll explain to you what I said to DeathLlama9: I didn't notice ghug voted for thdfrance and I asked DeathLlama9 specifically because his messages were standing out to me. Ghug, your posts seem to be long but singular, whereas I have found DeathLlama9's posts to be the exact opposite in style, he has posted a lot of brief comments in high succession, and the content doesn't always have clarity or offer substance. That's not an insult to DL9, just an observation, I appreciate much of it was probably meant in humour...but, then, I wanted to ask him to see if I could separate him providing serious dialogue in contrast to all the fluff.

Looking back at the thread so far, I'd add that your post about thdfrance contained a question to me and the other newer players, so obviously I focused on the bit about me and forgot to take into account the other stuff:
ghug, Page 2: ##VOTE thdfrance

You made a conscious effort to ask legitimate questions of someone and ignored the other people who could be asked the same questions. When questioned, you reverted to jokeposting. Why? What was your real reason for asking only LittleItaly?

LittleItaly and other new people, wjessop, Brankl, HR for thoroughness even though you're not really new: Do you have any past mafia experience? What are your thoughts on whether we should lynch anyone today? Do you have any questions you need answered?"

@ghug "@wjessop,you're here and you haven't answered my question. Why did you ask DL about thd and ignore me? Care to provide your thoughts on what's happened thus far?"

Seriously, give me a chance to type. I've posted my reply to you above.

Also, the swearing thing, yes that's a personal thing, I don't see the point in engaging with people who are going to be rude or offensive. You can see that from my dealings in other threads, like the capital punishment thread, where I refused to discuss with krellin or fielder if they could not hold a reasonable conversation. For me, that's a simple issue of respect.

Likewise, I didn't join this game to deal with puerile language (though, I admit that may be in vain), and certainly not from a moderator.

That doesn't mean I'm ignoring you (please don't be so sensitive), you're always free to reformulate and moderate your own poor language.

As OB had previously mentioned,

I too have learned from my last game that telling scum reads of players makes them and their partners do the opposite of that to confuse the town. So I will refrain from telling more reasons to DeathLlama being scum.

If DeathLlama is voted off and he turns out to be scum, then I don't have to explain my reason to have identified him.
But if DeathLlama is voted off and he turns out to be town, then I am forced to explain myself to everyone. Which I am willing to do so, when I that is the only way to save myself.

Unless you want to Lynch me, I don't think we should discuss about why I feel DeathLlama should be scum in much detail. Just the fact that his posts have been counter productive to town in general, is reason enough to lynch him on Day 1 I think. Since we don't have any other proof on anyone else.

And thanks for answering my questions, Pewing is something DeathLlama told in one of his posts when he mentioned vigilante wasting his shots.

I also feel that if you drive / distract the lynch away from DeathLlama then you must be scum buddies with him, trying to protect him. So if he is lynched and his is flipped scum, then I would be Lynching you next.

So, for the record, I didn't "avoid" answering your question, I just didn't think you needed me to personally answer your question when the same question had been asked by DeathLlama9 and I had already provided my response to him.

And now after ghug pestered me for my response he has gone offline. Maybe some patience, respect and humility might be helpful attributes to add to your Mafia game, if you want to work with us effectively.

@LittleItaly: "*Joke Begins*
I hate DeathLlama9 and ND for making me read four pages"

...haha! I must admit, I thought something similar. What a load of drivel that was.

@ghug: I'm interested in what you say to uclabb: "you're doing the captainmeme thing. Stop. We're likely to lose you after a day anyway. Contribute while you're here."

What do you mean by that? Who is 'we'?

@Maniac: Re your comment "Ghug in my eyes just failed. I think town Ghug wouldn't roll over so meekly whereas mafia Ghug would not wish to offend. As such my first scum read is Ghug."

That's a really interesting read, and probably the first serious one of the game, as far as I can tell...if we put aside all the stuff surrounding and emanating from DeathLlama9. As far as I was concerned, ghug seemed to want an answer to something I'd already answered to DeathLlama9. I don't really understand why; it's either male ego or you're right, it could be something else.

Right now, it seems people just want to argue over any petty little crumb, like ND and DeathLlama9 wasting 5 minutes of my life reading over that nonsense.

@wjessop, your original answer to DL said that I had voted for LittleItaly. I did not find that to be at all adequate. Thank you for answering more fully, though what appears now to be a pattern of negligence doesn't really fill me with confidence.

As for language, I'm not going to modulate myself to appease you. Words are words. They have the meaning we give them and nothing more. That said, it's absolutely useless to argue about it, and we're all going to need to interact with each other. Don't let it be an issue.

The "captainmeme thing" is meme's tendency to lurk early in the hopes of surviving until the end game. It's a terrible anti-town play, and my early hopes of him not doing it again after a strong first post are slowly waning. Uclabb has a tendency to be killed on the first night, hence the "we're likely to lose you".

Lastly, again, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the rest of the game thus far. Do you have any scumreads? I'm assuming your vote for thd was just meant to be a quote and not a vote, so are you going to vote for someone else?


##VOTE LI
Not explaining yourself is often a wise move, but the intention should always be to explain yourself eventually. Otherwise you're free to cast votes around without meaning or the risk of people following you.

I'm sleeping now. Night, all.

@LittleItaly: Re your comment "I feel ND, OB and Captainmeme are town. They are the ones I can tell with certainty, I am not sure about others."

I can definitely understand what you mean here. Though I haven't yet thought I have enough evidence on anyone to pinpoint whether they are town, mafia, or a particular role...I know what you mean about OB, ND, and captainmeme: they are all calm and posting respectful, helpful comments to help us think effectively about catching scummy players here.

I can only contrast this to DeathLlama9 and ghug who, respectively, have either seemed to want to derail the game with nonsense posts or seem to want to control the game as if it is their game and we are all just little parts of their game. That's not the way to make friends anywhere, in any thread.

But some of these players know each other inside out and are bluffing and double-bluffing, so we need to be on our toes, because we aren't necessarily familiar with all the different styles.

I'd also suggest this website if you want to check any terms, abbreviations, etc: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

"As OB had previously mentioned, I too have learned from my last game that telling scum reads of players makes them and their partners do the opposite of that to confuse the town. So I will refrain from telling more reasons to DeathLlama being scum."

That's not precisely what I said, I don't want to announce what I think are scum tells because I don't want scum to be cognizant of those tells. However, if I find someone has exhibited a tell and I think their behavior warrants a vote or accusation, I'll certainly come out with it. I think what guak did with ghug (regardless of its veracity) was an example of that. maniac thought ghug's response to the foul language issue was scummy. I think maniac is stretching there, but it's along the lines of what I think is the smart way to reveal what maniac looks for in scum tells.

^oops, wrote guak in there once, should have only been about maniac and ghug.

That being said, LI, why do you think DarthLlama is scummy?

@wjess - A lot of players in this game employ reaction tests to see how people respond to certain statements. Acting in a way to incite drama is at times a legitimate way to try to entice scum to slip. Particularly effective D1 before the scum have had a chance to talk and come up with a strategy. Also helps get players inexperienced at being mafia to open their mouths before they can be coached at night.

@ghug: I did not vote for thdfrance, that was me quoting your post in full. (##unvote thdfrance...if this is needed to clarify with the GM)
My thoughts on the game so far: it's been really fun and I've enjoyed the interactions with everyone and the exciting story boarding elements by y2k.
As for scum reads, I have no one whose really stood out to me for anything negative, apart from DeathLlama's nonsense and your slightly imperious attitude yesterday.
but that's probably just the commotion of day 1. I won't cast petty or joke votes so I'd rather wait and learn more, like OB says, rather than join a wagon when there's no real case, if that means no lymch for me so be it.

OB and ghug,

Please read my posts. I have mentioned my reasons for voting DeathLlama. If you don't find those reasons as valid. Then please explain to me why?

Wjessop, thanks. I will read through them. I am currently reading the Mafia guidelines for beginners that is mentioned in the OP.

http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=1129840#1129840

Do you guys know how to shorten the urls? like it is done in the OP?

thinking out loud...is there a benefit to each of us stating (at night) if i were the cop a would scan "a", "b" and "c". if cop dies the knowledge of who he scanned and his subsequent actions could be very beneficial.

Hypocop is a horrible strategy; and pre-hypocop like that just tells the hooker who to hook. Just leave the PR talk alone; because the more you go over who should be investigating who, the more the real cop stands out; as they're the one who's going to have been thinking about it all day.

ND's tunnelling of DL over something comparatively minor reminds me of his play last game (as mafia). Admittedly he died D1 and I haven't seen him play any other time; so he could just play like that in general, but I'm counting this as a negative right now. The fact that the amount of jokeposts someone made managed to become a topic for over 2 pages really looks like a mountain being made out of a molehill.

Other people seem to be getting townreads very quickly. Eg. @LittleItaly & @jessop. Particularly the captainmeme one - he's made a grand total of one post and you townread him, fairly certainly? That post hasn't even begun to move my opinion one way or another; so what about captainmeme makes him so townie to the pair of you?

##Unvote

I am sorry guys, I don't feel comfortable with the interface. And I haven't found a good format to use. So I will just use it as a chat window.

Reasons for my vote: (Putting them together for easy read)
I didn't like DeathLlama9 doing the jumping around with his posts. I think he is either scum who did a mistake early on (exposed himself as scum / tried to joke as a town) and is trying to correct it. Or is a bad town member. Unless he is a power role, I think we should Lynch him.

Just the fact that his posts have been counter productive to town in general, is reason enough to lynch him on Day 1 I think. Since we don't have any other proof on anyone else.

Reasons for town read:

I feel ND, OB and Captainmeme are town. They are the ones I can tell with certainty, I am not sure about others.

ND because he tunneled DL. OB because his posts were informative and productive to town. Captainmeme for creating / sharing a spread sheet to track votes (I don't think a scum would do that).

Please note that my reads are limited to my experience. They may be good / bad reads and could be the right way to look at things or the wrong way to look at things. If they are the wrong way to look at things, then I would appreciate folks to tell me why they are wrong. And I don't mind changing my opinion based on any concept or information that I am made aware of.

Captainmeme does that every game; as either alignment.

OB's posts were the standard I would expect

Why is ND tunnelling DL a townie thing to do?

Because from the first two pages, if I was active. I would have done the same.

Wouldn't you question someone if you think they are scummy?

And I do not have previous games knowledge, I can only interpret folks the way I see them in this game. So I guess my town reads are invalid on those two.