They've already done one false flag. Why not another.

Conquest is war. Period.

You have a problem with Israel bombing Hamas airstrikes, but by your logic, if they conquered the whole strip, THAT would be "peaceful?"

"Because only a mewling child describes conquest as the antithesis of war..."

Once in war you need a way out of it. Conquest is a way out of it. Absent conquest there are few good solutions to recurring territorial struggle.

*with airstrikes

making a point to say shit 23 americans died is, at least on the surface, suggesting american lives matter more than others. saying shit, 23 americans died, the implications for this might be bad is surely different.

also, i doubt that the 23 americans will change anything, at least not practically. if it was the ukraine the us will find a way to get around it, and if it was Russia the west will just use it as an extra excuse to enact the stupid policies they were already planning.

"but by your logic, if they conquered the whole strip, THAT would be "peaceful?""

What has the alternative been? 50 years of war. Israel isn't going to give up at the bargaining table what it can win on the battlefield. The only way the conflict ends is some kind of decisive resolution, which conquest provides.

"Once in war you need a way out of it. Conquest is a way out of it. Absent conquest there are few good solutions to recurring territorial struggle."

That does not make conquest a MORAL option.

I am at a loss that I an AGAINST conquering Gaza or the Palestinian people, and yet my advocating for their statehood and against their conquest makes ME the warmongering ass here, whereas you'd be fine with Israel conquering and forcing them under the Star of David whether they liked it or not.

@Socrates:

I did not mean to imply some lives are more valuable than others.

I again say that it could be a Lusitania situation...

which would fit with your statement, that it could lead into an already-mounting or planned situation, as we didn't enter WWI after the Lusitania, but it was a step.

They're already under the Star of David whether they like it or not. Might as well give them the legal protections of citizens, like Jordan gave them pre-67.

"What has the alternative been? 50 years of war. Israel isn't going to give up at the bargaining table what it can win on the battlefield. The only way the conflict ends is some kind of decisive resolution, which conquest provides."

A two-state solution...Palestinians will not be happy in an Israel, and Israel wants to be a Jewish state, that was the intention of its founding and founders, which would be pretty hard if the Jews were outnumbered by Muslims.

Neither side would be happy.

"They're already under the Star of David whether they like it or not. Might as well give them the legal protections of citizens, like Jordan gave them pre-67."

They don't WANT to be citizens. Some don't want their to be an Israel.

You cannot make people who don't wish an Israel to exist happy by forcing them to be a part of that Israel they don't want to exist.

" making a point to say shit 23 americans died is, at least on the surface, suggesting american lives matter more than others. saying shit, 23 americans died, the implications for this might be bad is surely different. "

Although Obi is an idiot, he did say this in a geopolitical context related to the lusitania (an idiotic comparison for sure but it was in the geopolitical context) He wasn't saying Americans are more important.

MSNBC keeps mentioning the possibility of a terrorist attack, which isn't something we've talked about too much, oddly enough, considering this day and age...

Anyone think that might be possible?

Perhaps not more important on a factual, worldwide level, but to myself (an American) the death of Americans is much more important than the death of Malaysians or Dutch or Ukrainians. I sympathize with all those who are affected, but the American deaths hit me the most.

I wonder if there were any Russian Trannies on that plane? It would explain why Putin had his minions shoot it down.

This feels like a false flag.

"I sympathize with all those who are affected, but the American deaths hit me the most."

Why? I honestly couldn't care less about their nationality myself.

One wonders why the Russians would supply Ukrainian rebels with long range SAMs, especially when the bog standard short range missiles have been so effective. It seems odd that the Russians would give such weapons to rather unreliable groups who could quite feasibly sell them to anti Russian terrorist organizations. I'm not ruling this possibility out, but it feels wrong.

I would be most interested in finding out who was on the plane before trying to attach blame to either side in the area. It would be the ideal cover to assassinate someone.

Could also just be a mechanical fault, of course.

UKRAINE shot the plane down in order to pin it on Russia and beat the war drums against Russia. It's a set-up. Alternately, they very possibly could have been targetting what they thought was Putin's plane.

The self-defense forces don't have Buk missiles and don't have the capacity to shoot down planes 10 km high. This act was done by the Kiev authorities. False flag.

"The self-defense forces don't have Buk missiles"
Which Putin knows because he's there.

Keyboard politicians, is there anything worse?

Or maybe Putin is a Russian double agent - so this is actually a false false flag

Oh...here it is...seems SOMEONE thinks Ukraine has Buk missiles, putty baby....

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140717/190988635/Ukrainian-Army-Buk-Missile-Likely-Downed-Malaysian-Plane--.html

Putin knows all, krellin...

That's why he's wrong so often, about Hamas, about Crimea, about this plane...

That's BECAUSE he knows all. He just has to work really, really hard to hide it and just look like he's dogmatically defending separatists that just killed 295 people with a weapon supplied to them by his namesake.

I mean, I could be wrong, but I'm just Obi--I'm just a fallible fool.

PUTIN knows all...Putin wouldn't ever be wrong about this...ever...just wait...

And looky looky.... it's .ru It's a Russian source...it's *gotta* be 100% honest.

PUTIN is Irrelevant.

Putin I did not forget you. Lol:))

Putin is the best source we have. He is the one who ordered it. So Putin, why did you kill 295 innocent civilians? not living up to Stalin yet?