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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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krellin (80 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
Oh noes...the AIDS Researchers...
Just listened to Obama blathering about the AIDS researchers on the Malaysian flight. Oh noes...the AIDS researchers....suddenly this flight is more important than others, because of the AIDS researchers...

If it were just shmucks like you and I that had died…not so big a deal. But the AIDS researchers…oh noes…Anyone else think that every life is precious, not just the AIDS researchers….OH NOES!!!
106 replies
Open
pangloss (363 D)
20 Jul 14 UTC
WBC SoundCloud
The Westboro Baptist Church has a SoundCloud page. They have 7h30 worth of parodies, some good, some bad (in terms of singing, production, etc.).
https://soundcloud.com/wbcsays/sets/parodies
In particular, 666 (Pumped-up Kicks) is fairly well done.
5 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
19 Jul 14 UTC
The WebDip Forum Drinking Game
Take a shot if.......
49 replies
Open
NBA Free Agency
I thought it would be nice to have a thread on NBA free agency, see what everyone was thinking about the main 'dramas' unfolding
133 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
Zionism, Jihad, Integration and the Postbellum South
By Al Swearengen

Actually, I probably won't get around to writing this.
18 replies
Open
Yaniv (1323 D(S))
19 Jul 14 UTC
Diplomacy, statistically speaking...
what are the odds of a player (a) soloing; (b) drawing; (c) surviving; (d) losing?
11 replies
Open
THELEGION (0 DX)
19 Jul 14 UTC
bar fight
Ok so there's a giant drunken bar fight between the irish, germans, vikings, russians and a combined force of american red necks and hill billys which group will win.
5 replies
Open
ThatBuhlLarry (100 D)
19 Jul 14 UTC
For Anyone Interested in a World Game
1 day phases; starts in 3 days
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=144739
1 reply
Open
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
05 Jul 14 UTC
(+3)
Mafia IV: Reptilian Invasion
See inside.
Page 42 of 49
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guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
I already made my rebuttal of ghug's case. I do not need to keep talking about it unless pj has any questions about it. Just the fact that you think making cases at this point is useless shows that you are scum. A townie wants to find out who the last mafia is so he will analyze the whole thread trying to distinguish lizard from mutant. Your lack of interest in who dies tells me you are the most likely mutant, though I still need to reread to see who is the last lizard.
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
i'm sure it does tell you that.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Are you claiming mutant?
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
I've been pretty loudly claiming govt official right now.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Then why would you say you are sure your behavior would tell me you are mutant?
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
to fuck with you :)
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
you and warden are so concerned about how you act and seem right now. it's hilarious.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Anyway, with both WD and y2k fakeclaiming town, I am sure that one of them will come out as mutant later in the day. I will do my research to try and determine who amongst you two is mutant and who is lizard, but I am pretty sure whomever is about to die will claim mutant no matter who he is to avoid dying. This convinces me that the evidence on who is the last lizard needs to be found in the thread.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Your lack of concern is what is truly hilarious. Only if you are the mutant would you feel that way as you know we need you alive to have a shot at winning.
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
I already stated exactly how we = town can win this. The rest of this is a combination of me fucking with you and this case you're going to make against me, and humor for pj. I stated exactly what I think is going on and have no need to prove it to you, only to pj, so I'll answer any questions he has for me. I don't need to go back and fabricate a case that will ultimately just rehash ghug's and maniac's points on you. There's a reason I don't have much on me yet, because there isn't anything to be had. I'm town bitch.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Ah yes, ghug's brilliant reads that said our doctor was scum and put us in this godforsaken situation and made us lynch Squigs on Day 1. I think you forget that ghug's read on pj is what forced pj to save himself instead of ghug himself. And of course Maniac's cases were actually against you and WD so it is quite funny that you are saying Maniac built a case against me. He never did, he just wanted to follow ghug.

You say you already stated how you can win, but I do not agree you stated how you = town can win, since you are scum. Killing me means we = the town loses. Just the fact that you have tunnel vision on me acknowledges the fact that you are mutant. A townie knows that there is a 50-50 shot of finding mafia on a random scenario and would ensure that a good reread of the thread is made to try and improve those odds. The mutant however does not care who amongst the other two dies because he *should I just say you?* thinks that it is more likely that the town would let the SK win than let the lizards win if it ever came to that.
WardenDresden (239 D(B))
15 Jul 14 UTC
Obviously all 3 of us will claim to be the last vanilla mortal, but the fact of the matter is that only PJ can cast the deciding vote here. Of course the scum would claim to be the last innocent, but so would the last innocent. PJ has to pick out the last lizard correctly out of the three of us, and even the humans only have a 50-50 (WIFOM) shot at lasting the night, and then PJ has to guess right again.

guak is right about one thing: y2k is not 100% clear of potentially being the last lizard, because it's POSSIBLE that uclabb only pushed for that last-minute change of votes onto him knowing that it wouldn't be enough, or that, had it been, he would've switched off of him.

What really strikes me as odd, though, is how guak, ended his last post with this: "The mutant however does not care who amongst the other two dies because he *should I just say you?* thinks that it is more likely that the town would let the SK win than let the lizards win if it ever came to that. " Why make a statement about the mutant's intentions unless he knows them? The mutant might think that he'd have a better shot trying to outguess PJ's doc save, or convincing PJ that the other guy was the mutant rather than risk a night where a roleblock could force a tie/auto-loss or a kingmaker situation. Personally, I'd be more inclined to NOT vote for either scum and force them both into losing scenarios than make one of them the winner.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Ok - haven't been back and re-read all yet but for fucks sake. The town couldn't have asked for a worse saviour to have. I'm going to have to re-read bloody 1242 replies now... ARGH!!! Bearing in mind how sucky my scum reads have been so far this game Lizard/Mutant must be feeling pretty comfortable about now.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Ok - couple of things, as I've been stuck in this role.
1) I'm not going to give any more comments on where my scum leans are for the next day and half. I will put my vote in tomorrow and will attempt to make that the first & last indication of what my thinking is.
2) I think it only reasonable then that the 3 of you build your own cases as well. It can be a dead simple case but all three of you need to list your Lizard and Mutant pick and a basic reason.
3) @Mutant. You know that the only way you can win is if we lynch the Lizard today. That gives you a 50-50 chance going into tonight, if we lynch a townie or if we lynch you, your out. As someone (I think Guak) pointed out whoever gets picked as scum is first going to claim townie, second going to claim Mutant. You have a choice here - you can make a claim of Mutant before I put my vote up. This will take you out of running for the lynch, but it means coming forward as mutant, assuming you can back it up with your reasoning on your night kills and no-one counter claims. However once my vote goes up - I'm NOT accepting mutant as a claim. Your choice
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
I'll restate my simple case:

There is not nearly as many scum reads from the rest of the town players on me as there are on Warden or Guak for the simple reason that I'm town with nothing to hide. I'm not some mastermind in this game. From that stance, it's easy for me to see Warden as mutant and Guak as lizard due to the mounting evidence of lizard behavior against guak, highlighted mainly by ghug and maniac, coupled by the fact that Warden is unlikely reptile due to his push on bo_sox.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Please for my simple benefit, point to the "lizard behaviour, highlighted mainly by Ghug and Maniac", just a pg reference if you have it.
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
So Maniac ID'd me and guak as mafia candidates on page 40, with me being more likely. He highlights the move onto me by uclabb and bo_sox on day one to lynch as a cover. But that's the only thing he offers. Not sure what to say other than there is no cover there. Maniac's argument for guak is minimal as well.

Ghug's arguments are on page 36. He flags me as good and rails guak as probable mafia.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
@pj: were you roleblocked? I think this is important for me to know. The last lizard obviously knows who was roleblocked. And it is quite likely that the mutant was roleblocked so there is a chance that the mutant also knows. If that is the case you and I are the only ones that do not know who was roleblocked. If you were, then the mutant and I are the only ones who do not know that information. If you were not roleblocked, that would make y2k the obvious choice for lizard since he apparently is convinced that the mutant was roleblocked. If you were, then y2k is the mutant and he targetted ILN too, but is WIFOMing in his claim the mutant was roleblocked to try and make me more suspicious.
guak (3381 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
By the way, my defense against ghug's manipulated case is on p37. I can also clarify any other questions you may have regarding my defense.

I am building my case against WD and y2k, but I really need to know if you were roleblocked as I think a large part of my analysis hinges on said roleblock.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
@guak - as you point out, don't you think it better that I hold that in reserve? If someone claims mutant, they may know the answer to that and would be a good clarification. Your interest intrigues me... Why are you so keen to know?
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
He's trying extra hard to make it seem like he doesn't know :)
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
15 Jul 14 UTC
Isn't the day over now?
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
15 Jul 14 UTC
we got another 24 hours
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
16 Jul 14 UTC
Bump. The spectators' thread has been more active than the players' for the latter stages of this game and that's kind of sad.
guak (3381 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@pj: Well basically because everyone around here knows what is going on here but me. I have a theory about who is who, but it basically hinges on who was roleblocked. If you do not want to share that information I will just build my cases and leave the question unanswered. What I truly do not understand is why keeping who was roleblocked a secret is good for us? The way I see it the lizard already possesses this information and the person who was roleblocked also does. If anyone was docsaved that would explain why there was only one death. I basically think that the last lizard is trying to set me up by targetting ILN instead of pj, but then there is also the possibility that the mutant was the one that targetted ILN and that the lizard was stopped by a doc save. I also do not understand why is stopping the flow of information good for the town? I think that giving time to reply to accusations is really important. If for example you decide to vote me and do not give me enough time to defend myself, then what is the point of going through this all? Might as well just end it. I do not even know if I will be around by the end of the deadline due to work reasons and it would really suck if we lose because I was not around to defend myself as the last vanilla here. I know y2k and WD are scum, but I do not know who is who. There was evidently some bussing in this game that allowed the last lizard to stay hidden. I have a couple of theories and will post them all. If you decide to share who was roleblocked I can make a better analysis on who is the last lizard. If not then whatever I will post my case and point out how it hinges on who was roleblocked.
pjmansfield99 (100 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
I was not roleblocked.
guak (3381 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Y2k case:
On p1 y2k says this:
'What Squigs is getting at is that true government officials/townies should explain all their thinking and avoid being cryptic with their contributions to the game. If someone is a true government official, they should be trying as hard as possible to explain all of their thinking as much as possible. It makes it even more helpful if when you've been lynched, we know you're good, and can read your posts knowing you are scum-free.'

He never does this himself, so I guess that eans he is not a true government official, by his own words.

p5: y2k posts about entertaining a no vote. buddies up to krellin.
p6: bosox posts reads. Does not post read on y2k.
p8: y2k reads:
bosox: null to town, he seems to be putting in a lot of effort in his reads this game. He's putting on a very nice act if he is in fact scum.
uclabb: null to town, same as bosox. Definitely putting the effort in.

He hedges on the reads for both, and manages to talk good about each. I really think that saying uclabb had been 'putting the effort in' at this point is quite a stretch of the truth as uclabb had only talked about WIFOM and about krellin's contradictions, which we all know happen often in any game and are not usually alignment indicative.

p9: y2k discredits Maniac after Maniac posted an accusation against bosox.
p9: uclabb posts his reads
bosox- Going the other direction, I do think that squigs was right in identifying the single scummiest non-krellin thing that has happened thus far, which was bosox's post that essentially said "P.S. Can everyone please coach me on how to seem town?" Hate that/would vote if the BW were between him and someone not squigs or krellin.
y2k- He seems scummy, but I think only in relation to krellin. I'm remembering y2k being one of the main champions of a first day lynch in M2 (maybe that's wrong, he can correct if so), so it is very strange to me that he is switching his tune this time. It's one of those cases where sticking one's neck out, even when wrong, probably leans town, though. Basically at this point it's hard to find even a 4th scummy person because nobody is posting anything.
uclabb says that y2k is scummy in the same post he places bosox in his scum list. What is most interesting here is that he actually says that it is a case when doing something scummy leans town, which makes zero sense. Clearly this is uclabb distancing himself from his mafia buddies.

p11: fluff conversation about lurking between bosox and y2k
p14: y2k gives strength to the Squigs bandwagon by saying
'I'm somewhat convinced, ##VOTE Squiggs. Defensiveness is the biggest red flag for me there. I'll certainly feel much better about semck if squiggs did flip mafia.'
p15: y2k says he is willing to vote for someone he does not think is lizard
'I still don't think krellin is mafia, but I'm willing to switch off squiggs to krellin if that avoids a tie. ##VOTE krellin'

Moves back to Squigs after krellin claims.

p15: Squigs builds a solid last minute case against y2k. You might want to check it out if you thin mine may be tainted.

p15: uclabb votes y2k. At this point there was much less than a half hour left and Squigs had 6 votes on him. Y2k only had Squigs voting for him. I think this vote was one of the main reasons why y2k has been overlooked, but coming from uclabb I think it is clear that it is a distancing strategy. There was little risk of a y2k bandwagon picking up enough steam. Chaqa and I were stuck on ILN and Maniac on Chaqa. uclabb did not want to be accuses for staying on krellin and knew that his vote was not needed on Squigs to secure a lynch.
p16: y2k's defense
'I'm town, but I accept the suspicion thrown on me. I haven't been too vocal for Day 1.'
If he had been town and fearing a late bandwagon on him he would had been worried and would had tried to address Squigs case on him. Yet he was not... why? because he knew that his mafia buddy would change his vote arguing that he wanted to avoid risking a tie or something if the vote got close.
p16: bosox switches in the last minute to y2k when it was clear that Squigs was dead to make it 5 - 4. This helped distance y2k from bo too and the timing ensured that there was zero chance of y2k dying. Clearly, bo understoood what uclabb did and replicated his strategy.

p18: uclabb night scum list goes krellin, y2k and bosox. Even after krellin claim. uclabb does this because he does not want to bump up either y2k or bosox to first and not enough had changed for him to move up from one of his lower ranks someone to first.

p19: bosox scum list replicates uclabb's. It goes Chaqa, krellin, uclabb, y2k and WD. bo was clearly doing everything uclabb did. That is why he lost it on day 2 and when down so fast. Without uclabb to follow he started making several mistakes.

p19: I challenged y2k to respond why if he knew he was doing the scummy things Squigs pointed out he failed to correct his behavior earlier. This is the answer I got:
'I'll respond to Guak and his question why I offered to correct my scummy behavior only when I started getting votes. The only scummy behavior I believe I am guilty of so far is lurking. Other claims of scummy behavior exhibited from me are stretches and misguided reads. But then again, aren't the vast majority of scum reads from town on day 1 usually against other townies? The numbers say it's likely. Factor in the mafia influencing other townies? This is exactly how i started considering a no-lynch Day 1. We were all grasping at straws. Now that we have a full day behind us, there are past actions to base our accusations on requiring explanations for behavior from individuals. I wouldn't have voted no-lynch yesterday if I didn't feel so pressured to vote by everyone. People want others to vote to give concrete information on their suspicions and I get that, but I'm having the same thought process as Krellin. It's reinforcing my belief that he's town as well because I understand his perspective, and I'm having trouble rationalizing his actions as mafia. So yes I do believe his claim.
Anyway, the lurking was me just being averse to all the baseless accusations coming from everyone, including myself I felt. I'm certainly not certain about my scum read on semck, or anyone yet, I have to go back and read Day 1 closer and be prepared to cross-analyze that with the night results tonight in the event I live and need to actively find scum.'

y2k fails to address all other Squigs points and just waves them off as stretches and misreads. Only focuses on the lurking part. This is a very lizardy thing to do. He also keeps hedging his reads and buddies up to krellin. I think this is particularly significant because in M2 when krellin was mafia he buddied up to y2k. y2k was likely trying to take advantage of krellin's favorable opinion of him from M2.
p22: WD's analysis of uclabb death yields this result
'If I had to link anyone to uclabb based on the past 72 hours, I'd say it's one of PJ, Maniac, or ILN. If he started with a bus/distancing strategy, then I'd have to say krellin or y2k. '
I think it is clear that if uclabb attempted a bus strategy y2k is his buddy.
p22: bo posts reads post-uclabb death
'Y2K: While he was the hot topic in the last 30 minutes of day one, he's been almost completely absent since. He put forward a reasonable defense during the night but didn't post much else. I'm also worried because, after Squigs made the case near the end of day one, uclabb immediately switched his vote over to Y2K, more evidence that he was trying to disassociate himself with a town lynch. This isn't a clear connection but it's possible, and given Y2K's lurking so far, I'm leaning slight scum, but only slight..'
Sensing a pattern here. bo actually praises y2k for his lame defense during the night in which he failed to address all of the points Squigs brought up against him.
p22: y2k starts Maniac bandwagon because he listed uclabb as probably town. Pretty lame case.
p24: after ghug makes case on bosox y2k says
'Maniac remains my strongest scum read. I'll have to look over bosox more carefully tonight.'
bosox immediately says this to maniac
' "Mmmm I clear both Y2 and Krellin and they come right out and make me their #1 scum."
That's an odd line. You really think that reading someone town is going to make them like you and keep you around longer?'
Looks like y2k and bosox were trying hard to make Maniac a viable Day 2 target.
p25: y2k says this:
'To back up ILN's claim to be town, uclabb did have him listed along with me and Chaqa as his top scum reads. Sure you can go WIFOM on that and claim it's very possible that uclabb listed a fellow mafia member as a top scum read, but given how badly Day 1 went for town, that seems like an unnecessary move for uclabb to make now. I'm convinced ILN is town for the time being.'
He is indirectly clearing himself and bo without actually saying so while buddying up to ILN. Brilliant post indeed.
p25: pj you say to krellin that you think uclabb was bussing him on Day 1 because you think he was that good a player. You were right, he is that good. But he bussed y2k not krellin.
p27: maniac accuses y2k of top scum.
p28: y2k answers this
'@Maniac: very interesting theory, albeit misguided, on how uclabb could have taken the risk of looking like he wanted to have me lynched last minute, calculating it wouldn't work because I'm a fellow scum and not enough people were online for the deadline. '

y2k again simply waves off accusations against him and does not actually address the points against him.

p29: y2k votes bosox. He did this at a time when the wagon on bo had already formed and had no intention of going away. Given all the bussing that went on between uclabb and bo, I do not find this at all surprising. y2k knew bo's chances of surviving were slim and did not mind bussing him if needed.

p29: y2k says
'Me fighting to survive in the last 30 minutes of Day 1 is what didn't seem all that necessary. From my perspective we had a better shot of lynching mafia by lynching Squigs instead of me since I know I'm town, but without much more to say, I felt it unnecessary and was even unclear how to defend myself in that moment. With less than 10 people alive now, each townie is much more important to survive and fight in order to ensure a town victory, so I'll be fighting much more going forward than I did on Day 1.'
A townie would never find it unnecessary to defend himself before dying (see Squigs and Maniac). A lizard will (see bosox). Also, he says he was unclear on how to defend himself. A townie is never unclear on how to defend himself. I should rest my case right now, but I just know I will find even more evidence in the next pages.

p30: y2k moves to ILN trying to get a new wagon going.

p30: y2k moves back to bosox immediately after fake claim. I find this quite interesting. There were three people that knew for sure that bo was fakeclaiming. The last lizard, ghug the vig, and the mutant. This certainty that y2k had that it was a fakeclaim proves that he is mutant or the last lizard. ghug had the same certainty and that likely got him killed during the night. If y2k were mutant he would jump at the chance to keep a fake SK around for a while (like WD did). So, that makes him the last lizard. Given all the bussing that has been going on I think it is safe to say that y2k bussed him. bo's claim was a crappy one. He did not actually claim a role and claimed a kill that he had no way of knowing who had made. y2k would had recognized that bo's claim was likely to fail and grasped the opportunity to distance himself further from uc and bo. I think this was another great play. kudos to you y2k, clearly the lizard mvp.

p31: bo posts this beauty

'It's funny how the fake role claim is so believable to you, y2k, but when an actual kill role comes out and offers to help the town out in order to last a little bit longer, you jump him.

There's two mafia members voting for me, and now that they've got a chance to remove a power role without wasting their night kill, they're trying to take advantage. See through it.'

So, bo is surprised y2k is still bussing him and is calling him out for it.

p32: bo says
' "die mutant"

Thank you y2k. I can't beat that case.'
bo is clearly still mad at being bussed by his teammate. I do not see him addressing comments at others like he has to y2k.

p32: y2k asks the vigilante to reveal himself!!!! MAJOR SCUM

'Honestly, the vigilante could even reveal now to assuage us that bo_sox is not the vigilante, and we'd be fine. doctor visits vig, and let mafia waste a roleblock on the vig while the cop scans away.'

I cannot believe I missed this post earlier. HUGE alien alert.

p33: y2k raises suspicion against Maniac again after bo dies.
p34: y2k is the first to say it is time to hunt for the mutant. Funny that he does not mention that there is also a need to find the last lizard.

He pushes again in another post and says:

'Can we discuss what kind of past behavior would indicate a mutant mentality? I'm not sure what to look for when looking over the last 2 days.'
and further ahead
'Not the Mutant, he didn't know anyone. How does the SK act?'

Clearly at this point y2k is only interested in finding the mutant and has no interest in finding the last lizard.

p36: y2k is at Maniac's throat saying that vanilla town does not fakeclaim cop.
p37: y2k keeps pushing maniac.
p40: Maniac read of y2k sums up pretty well why y2k is the last lizard.
p41: y2k decides to shut up for the night. This goes against his very first post when he said that townies should always be clear with their opinions. Also, this lack of reads shows he is trying to stay clear off the mutant's radar. A very scummy thing to do. He does not even post his reads before night is over. This shows that y2k either knew he was not going to die, or knew that if he died he had already lost and there was no point in leaving behind his reads to be properly analyzed by those left. A townie would had left his reads in case others were interested in finding out what they were. Fact is, y2k never has been open about his opinions and has always played follow the leader. Only *original* read was on Maniac and many people had Maniac among the top suspects at the time he first raised suspicion against him.

In summary,

Lots of bussing from y2k bo and uclabb. There is definitely a pattern. y2k has not actively hunted for scum and had not made any original cases. Closest thing to an accusation was his case against Maniac but that was mostly OMGUS. y2k has shown extremely scummy behavior in his proposal that the vig reveal himself, trying to find the mutant before the last lizard and for never hesitating to believe bosox. A true townie shows doubt when faced with such a claim unless he has inside info like ghug had. y2k never bothered to defend himself and usually just waved accusations of him. Everyone thinks he is town because he was bussed by uclabb and bosox and he himself bussed bosox, but other than that his behavior has been incredibly scummy throughout. I really do not undertand how I missed so many signs before.

Furthermore, y2k knows who was roleblocked, which explains his behavior early today. If it was pj, then y2k *knows* the mutant targetted ILN too, which is why he started the morning accusing me of being lizard and has never even considered WD is the last lizard (ILN has been my top scum read for quite a while and it is clear that at this point in the game the mutant would had been hunting for lizards). The truth is that y2k thinks I am the mutant and needs me dead thinking that he automatically wins then. If WD was RBd then that explains nicely why there was only one death. I know I was not RBd, but I see both scenarios as supporting my reads of y2k as lizard and WD as mutant. If ILN was the one who was RBd then I guess pj and I are extremely lucky to be alive.

##VOTE y2k. Upon reread it is entirely clear to me that y2k is the last lizard. @WD: if you are the last lizard then congratulations, you have played a perfect game of mafia. If you are the mutant like I will state next, then I wish you the worst of luck during the night.
guak (3381 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
WD case
p3: points out that there is no SK, that there is a mutant and aliens.
p3: bosox accuses WD for voting Chaqa
p4: WD accuses bosox back for accusing him for voting Chaqa.
p6: bosox read on y2k 'WD: I think we got off on the wrong foot when discussing Chaqa, but most of that situation was a little out-of-whack so I'm going to let it go. Haven't seen a whole lot more since then, so null read right now.'
p6: Warden makes big posts were he mentions killing lizards often but never once killing mutants. Funny, because he was very aware of the existence of the mutant earlier. Maybe he just does not want to kill the mutant because he is the mutant.
p7: bosox defends WD after his early attack.
'@ILN ... I think Chaqa has dropped that vote and WD came clean about it being an overreaction. For what it's worth, if the joke part of Chaqa's opening remarks went over your head, it'd be easy to call it out as a scum slip.
Regarding his attracting attention to himself, I think he did so unintentionally, and has since been trying to move the attention somewhere else by lurking. He really hasn't posted anything remotely useful so far. It's too early to determine if that's a clear sign that he's mafia, but it certainly should raise an eyebrow.'
p14: WD posts reads
'bo_sox: After engaging me for an obvious joke, he turned on krellin, and hasn't left that attack since. Despite posting a reads list (I think) he has continued to seek out "contradictions" of krellin repeatedly, yet despite pointing out, time and again how krellin seems scummy to him, isn't voting for him. And as krellin himself pointed out, seems way too sure of himself for someone who opened up playing the noob card. Almost like he's got insider information and is trying to push for an innocent lynch without being directly tied to it. (Lizard)'
does not post read on uclabb.
Soon after votes bosox.
p17: Warden again speaks a lot about the lizards and does not mention the mutant.
p30-31: Warden wants to keep bo around. This would clearly benefit him if he is the actual mutant. I think it is pretty clear by now that WD has been playing an excellent mutant and loves to hide in the background while everyone forgets about trying to find the mutant.

Overall, there is hardly anything scummy to be found in WD's game. I think he has played an absolute killer mutant. There is not much upon which a case for being lizard an be built. The best scraps I have managed to pick up against him are his support for keeping bo as fake mutant around and the fact that he usually mentioned hunting for lizards instead of scum or mutants and lizards. These are stronger evidence for WD being mutant than lizard.
guak (3381 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
WHY I AM NOT A LIZARD

First some quick facts:
-On p4 I am the first to call out uclabb for his fluff WIFOM posting.
-On p5 I call out uclabb for trying to direct the town into avoiding late-day vote switching.
-On p7 I am the first one to point out bosox's scummiest action which was extremely important in the case that got him lynched.
-On p9 uclabb places bosox in his scum list. He says the following:
'bosox- Going the other direction, I do think that squigs was right in identifying the single scummiest non-krellin thing that has happened thus far, which was bosox's post that essentially said "P.S. Can everyone please coach me on how to seem town?" Hate that/would vote if the BW were between him and someone not squigs or krellin.'
Now, uclabb incorrectly attributed to Squigs this discovery, which was first signaled by me. If I were uclabb's final lizard buddy why would he say it was Squigs instead of me when it would had helped to distance me from bosox? Makes no sense whatsoever.
- On p22, Bo also goes out of his way to 'clear me' because I was uclabb's top town read. I protested this clear in the next page.
- On p33, Bo moves his vote to Maniac so that he and I are voting for the same person. He could had moved to krellin, where pj was voting. If I had been last lizard he would not had wanted to be voting with me in the final tally. He would had tried to dissociate himself from me rather.
- On p38, y2k says that he is convince I am town after reading my defense against ghug's case. Yet, now he says I am the last lizard because of ghug's case that he thought I rebutted well enough to convince him I am town. What has changed? Well, the fact that he cannot possibly read me as town anymore since that would reveal him for the scum he is.
-During the entire game I was never afraid to point out and confront scummy behavior.
- I have had clear, evolving reads and have never been hesitant to post my reads or accusations.

Moreover, there are two simple reasons that I can bring up that make it astonishingly clear that I am not the lizard.

The first one is the fact that both uclabb and bosox listed me as strong town from Day 1. Since it was day 1, there is no way the lizards had talked an elaborate plan to act completely different to how mafia normally plays. There are several reasons why listing a mafia partner as your top town read is a very risky situation and why having two lizards list me as top town clears me. The first reason is that in the fake scenario where I am the lizard partner to bo and uclabb if I had died first instead of uclabb, then the whole town would had turned to uclabb and bo for listing me as top town even though I was fairly inactive on Day and not much more than a town lean was warranted by my behavior. The second reason is that mafia love to hedge their reads. It is pretty crazy to imagine that all of the lizards decided to play such a risky move without consulting each other first. The third reason, and I believe this one is by far the strongest, is that the mafia tends to town read a group of vanilla townies early on to try and gain their goodwill. So the top town read is usually given by the lizards to someone they want to buddy up too by making said person think that they are probably not mafia beacuse they are reading him as town, while at the same time raising suspicion against said innocent townie and away from their mafia partners in the event that an early death happens. the lizards did this with me and with ILN (by defending him, not by reading him as town). What I am saying is that both uclabb and bosox picked me as top town because they wanted to a) buddy up to me, and b) direct suspicion at me and away from the last lizard in the event that they died. So, they were setting me up. I am also saying if I were lizard that they would not risk placing me as top town read because a) I would represent a link to both other lizards and it would almost mean and automatic lizard loss if I died early, and b) It would make me a top suspect in the event that both of them died early (which is what is happening). I think that uclabb is an experienced enough player to avoid such a risk on Day 1. This leads me to the second simple reason.

The second one is the fact that I listed both bosox and uclabb in a separate category of their own. Again, this move would basically be an unwarranted risk because it places the spotlight on me if both of the others die first, and it places the spotlight on them if I die first. The fact that they were both on a category of their own was that my scum read of them was based on their town-read of me mostly. I did not feel I had done enough to secure a top town read, but at most a town lean. This meant to me that these guys were acting like they knew something I did not, but since this is an awful reason to give as to why I thought at the time they were scum I decided to leave them on the slight scum category until I could build a better case against any of them.
guak (3381 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
@pj: just realized you already revealed roleblock. Oh well I posted my analysis including all possible roleblocks anyway. I would had fet even surer about y2k if you had been roleblocked. But I still am pretty convinced that y2k is the lizard. Like I said, if it is WD, then he has played a perfect game and I find that extremely hard to believe. It is too difficult to play this game without ever slipping. Also, I will be logging in during the day to respond to any questions you may have about my case building. Or about the cases against me. I think I have already covered everything pretty thoroughly, so now it is up to you to make the final decision. Needless to say, I will change my vote to whomever you decide is the last lizard, as we cannot afford a no lynch today.

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1463 replies
krellin (80 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
:) OR (:
Why do smiley faces always have to come eyes-first?
19 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 Jul 14 UTC
Now Trending on Tumblr
Another person killed by stupid aggressive cops for no fucking reason. Is anyone surprised?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-man-dies-puts-choke-hold-article-1.1871486
10 replies
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Hellenic Riot (1626 D(G))
17 Jul 14 UTC
Malaysian Airliner shot down over Ukraine
Never getting on a Malaysian aeroplane...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856
198 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
18 Jul 14 UTC
I work for a US multi-national and.....
.... they use websense to prevent me going to certain undesirable websites.
I cannot access the Labour Party or Liberal Democrats websites.
Guess what, I can access the Conservative website.
16 replies
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Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
does life get any better?
Sitting out back, fire pit ablaze, smoking a cigar and sipping a scotch while the dogs run around a d bark at the dear and the sun sets...
32 replies
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
14 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
What I've Been Saying About Gaza:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/israel-iron-dome-could-prolong-195600244.html Main quote inside, but essentially--the Iron Dome, which has (thankfully) stopped hundreds of rocket attacks in just a few days now, has taken all pressure off Netanyahu to negotiate, while Hamas arguably stands to gain more from prolonging the conflict--ie, shooting rockets knowing they'll be intercepted and reprisals will come--than by making peace. So, settle in, boys and girls...
249 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jul 14 UTC
WTF is wrong with Indian men....
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-28340617

Kiddie rape in India ...... the police are so useless some might accuse them of being part of the overall problem
19 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
17 Jul 14 UTC
(+9)
Babak wanted to say "Hi" to WebDip
Babak asked me to say "Hi" to webdip on facebook. He is doing well, has a 6 month old baby, and just moved to a new country, but once things settle down, he might join us again.
So in the mean time, shape up your diplomatic and tactical skils and let's see who else we can drag back. :)
19 replies
Open
josepr (100 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
what is the average age of webdiplomacy players?
Is there a statistic? I want to know. In a game I felt I was playing with the stubbornness of a child. He/she wanted ALL his way. All the negotiation was "this is mine mine mine". He/she couldn't see the repercussions of a bad decision because he/she wanted the gratification of now.

Seriously, knowing the age of a person before starting a game or a negotiation can help a lot. Psychological speaking.
78 replies
Open
brora (100 D)
18 Jul 14 UTC
How to join a new game?
I'm a new player - new to this site. I am trying to get into a new game. When I press on 'New' I see a list of new games. However, some are 'padlocked' and require passwords. How do I get into those? Or can I only play games without padlocks?
9 replies
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lixu893 (0 DX)
18 Jul 14 UTC
Where to buy Cases For Samsung Galaxy S5
You need a special case for your new Samsung Galaxy S5, to show your taste and protect your phone. We happen to have thousands of different styles cases for Samsung Galaxy S5. It is your best choice for shopping at our store. Free shipping for two cases now at http://www.centurycases.com/.
3 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
17 Jul 14 UTC
^^^^ UK General Election 2015 ****
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28339128
Lib Dems have gone early while Cameron is on the defensive after his re-shuffle. Because of the current coalition of Tories/Liberals there will be a new dynamic to the elections, also the rise of UKIP is a bit of an unknown factor.
30 replies
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mikelikeike (100 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
Live Game, Players needed
Low risk game. Join now. Slots will go fast!
gameID=144714
3 replies
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SYnapse (0 DX)
16 Jul 14 UTC
How to Solo as Italy
Is there a way?
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steephie22 (182 D(S))
17 Jul 14 UTC
Best free webdesign software
I'm very likely going to design another website, but unlike last time, this isn't for school or something, so I can use all the tools I want to make my job easier. What software would you recommend? There's quite a lot to choose from and I don't want to try them all, nor spend extra hours because I'm missing some very useful features...
8 replies
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mikelikeike (100 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
Dominion 2 (live game)
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Jamiet99uk (808 D)
15 Jul 14 UTC
UK Cabinet re-shuffle
Hague stepping down as Foreign Secretary, Gove removed from Education and sidelined. Thoughts?
68 replies
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SantaClausowitz (360 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Best Grand Strategy Computer Game
Had a good discussion yesterday, I figured we can explore another topic.
32 replies
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jmo1121109 (3812 D)
16 Jul 14 UTC
Mod Team Announcement Part 1 of 2
goldfinger0303 is stepping down as an Admin, as he no longer has the time to visit the site. 2ndWhiteLine has been promoted to an Admin to fill goldfinger0303's role. So thank you goldie for the years of moderating, and thank you 2nd for agreeing to the extra workload.
25 replies
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tvrocks (388 D)
17 Jul 14 UTC
16 hour phase gunboat
gameID=144690 join now.
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ssorenn (0 DX)
15 Jul 14 UTC
Watches or timepieces
Does anyone here collect, watches or timepieces?
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