How can love not form out of friendship? Better yet, how can it form out of anything else? Are people really so pathetic as to have sex and get so attached that they're in "love" without even knowing their partner?

I guess what I mean is there's a problem if she loves you like a brother or something. Perfect match or not, there are some people you don't want to sleep with.

Steephie22 thinking outside the box as always

Sensuality and love don't have to go together. They might go together for you but they might not for someone else.

There are quite a few women that I am close friends with that I wouldn't, under any circumstances, want a romantic relationship with. If I had never been friends with them this wouldn't have suddenly made a romantic relationship more likely. I reckon the concept of friendship getting in the way of a long term romantic relationship is a Hollywood myth.

@ Oct: When you hear guys complaining about ending up in the "friend zone" it's because they didn't have the sack to be open and honest with the girl. They're talking about guys trying to friend their way in to a girls pants, not actual friendships between men and women.

I don't think brainbomb falls into that category, to be fair.

That's more in general. I would never attempt to speak for bb.

I agree it's mostly myth, but there is some truth in it. If you have no connection to someone at all, there's nothing to lose.
It's mostly a problem when it's not true friendship or true love though.

I just think it's easier to be honest if you love someone and don't lie about it and be friends first.
It's all about intent and what you're signalling I guess. If it doesn't match, you're bound to create confusion. You don't want to play Diplomacy with the one you love.

The "friend zone" is not an issue of myth or fact. It's an issue of douchebaggery or respectfulness. A girl's right to deny you sex is not myth, nor is a guy's right to judge her for it. However, it is douchey to do so. It is even more douchey to let her drop off the face of your world simply because she didn't want to have sex with you.

Octavious: "I reckon the concept of friendship getting in the way of a long term romantic relationship is a Hollywood myth."

I agree with you abstractly, but it's complicated. On two separate occasions I've tried to date close friends, and in both cases the relationships didn't last more than a few months. I'm 87% sure that the previously-existing friendship wasn't the deciding factor, but it added a level of pressure that wouldn't otherwise have been there: we both knew that if the relationship failed, the closeness of the original friendship probably would too. Now I'm not bitter towards either of them, but we're not close friends any more.

@biofil

A fair comment. Out of interest, if you hadn't been friends with them do you feel a long term romantic relationship would have stood a better chance, or even been possible for that matter?

Relationships start in myriads of ways, as evidenced by the examples we've seen. Octavious points out that his beau was his friend first, while biophil has had less success with that particular experience.

What I'm saying about the "friend zone" is this. If you're romantically interested in someone, and decide to strike up a platonic friendship that you then later try to leverage into a romantic one is, as bo_sox48 puts it, exceptional douchebaggery. It's inherently deceitful in the sense that your truer motives for your actions are concealed. In the course of this initial "friend stage," what if she asks you if think of her as more than a friend? You can lie by saying no. Or you honestly say yes, which could then make her wonder about your motives have been the entire time. Either way, you're done.

I just want to pop in to say how happy I am brainbomb posted this thread. Thank you.

@ yigg

That has to be the biggest load of nonsense I've read in a while. Firstly, biophil hasn't had less success. He has had a couple of relationships that haven't worked out, which is very much to be expected when searching for your other half. Getting it right first time is damned unusual. I have seen no examples yet of anyone with a successful relationship not built on friendship.

Also, does America work so differently? Do men go up to women and say "I say, you look like the kind of girl I'd like to strike up a platonic friendship with"? Friendship just sort of happens, surely? There is no contract attached.

"You can lie by saying no. Or you honestly say yes, which could then make her wonder about your motives have been the entire time. Either way, you're done."

Some of the most depressing load of crap I've read on this site. Sorry, but it is.

I think thats a compliment? I cant tell. This forum is so full of people who act totally ingeniune its hard to tell.

I have not tried to pursue anything romantic with anyone in a while. My ex and I spent a lot of time watching netflix and complaining to each other about things.
Before that I dated a girl who was a lesbian. She decided guys were cool too. Then she moved to Iowa and turned insane.
I do attract crazies so I was sort of hoping maybe this lady has a decent career, seems chill and I certainly could use some chill in my life. If you hadnt noticed my brain is like a gerbil in a wheel. Im starting to go grey and get arthritis in my ankles.
Its time to get serious, 32 now. Gotta make some big decisions and stuff.

"I dated a girl who was a lesbian. She decided guys were cool too."

The correct term for that is "bisexual".

I think he means that she thought she was lesbian before they met. Then they figured out together that she's probably bisexual.

Of course, I can't read his mind, but that's what I thought he assumed.

Anyway, bb, if you need to make some big decisions, figuring out how to approach a girl might not be the first thing to consider. Decide where you want to add up, what you want to change in your lifestyle. You can probably tell her because ambition sells (although I can't speak for everyone, but ambitions and many interests are the two first things that make me fall for a girl), but make sure you're doing it for you.

Your seeking relationship advice on this site LMAO..

It is more likely someone else here knows the same girl and has given you "great advice in the form of a STAB

PS ive been and am married 25years +..

Also a brief remark on the concept of the "friendzone". I hate this term and I hate the idea that gaining a woman's friendship is somehow a runner-up prize. If you meet a woman, and you like her, and she decides she likes you too and wants to become your friend, that's a win, not a defeat.

Some men go around as if they're entitled to the sexual attention of every woman they meet and that if a woman "only" wants their friendship, that's some kind of consolation prize at best.

Those men are assholes and they deserve to be shut in a box.

My two best friends in the world are women. One of them is an ex-partner who became an even better and closer friend than she was when we were romantically involved. The other has never had any sexual / romantic chemistry with me, although I do find her attractive, but we have an instinctive connection and a deep, loving friendship and I honestly feel I'm closer to her than a lot of people are to their girlfriend or partner.

So if you're the kind of man who goes "OH NOES I'VE BEEN RELEGATED TO TEH FREINDZONE", you're a fool and an asshole, and what's more you're probably missing out on some really special friendships.

@BB I'm 36 and I have no intention of getting married unless it happens on accident, like I fall down and oh no there's a ring on my finger. My point is, don't get serious, just focus on what you like doing and it'll fall into place.

Travel the world, fly planes, do back flips, learn the violin, or get married and have kids and work your ass off dreaming about all the cool shit you could have done.

@Jamie I totes McGoats agree with you.

I spend many an hour dreaming of all the things I could have done instead of learning the violin. God, I hate the violin. Awful squeaky instrument, and it gives you a pain in the neck.

@Octavious, in reply to your question a little way back: I don't know if a romantic relationship would have worked better if we hadn't had the previously-existing friendship. For the most part, I think both relationships were not going to work regardless, but there's a chance that I'd see it differently if I were lonely today. :) My love life has worked out exceedingly well for me since then (happily married), so I have nothing to regret.

Real relationships (friendships, romantic, whatever) develop organically. If you try to change that you're just getting in the way of what the proper result is. You like this person therefore you want to spend time with her. Follow that instinct, see how it goes. Be honest, have fun, whatever the result it will be for the best. You're way overthinking everything and this is probably the nature of your problems. Just be, man.

At this point i feel sort of like a stalker by having read all this without having once posted on the forums, nor having met any of you before.

Welcome to the Forum, ismahale. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.