Poroshenko is asserting that this might have been the Russian side, as they've shot down other planes in previous days.

"Conquest ends the war. Of course it ends the violence."

Because no violence ever occurs within a state's borders when it's at "peace."

Heck, that's what you're asserting Israel does to Palestinians, even in peacetime.

But no...conquest = peace...and you're a peacenik for arguing FOR war.

You're an idiot.

That's a question for airline execs, abge. Under normal circumstances, 33,000 feet isn't a war zone regardless of who is fighting below you either. It's entirely possible that they weren't aware of the missiles that were now in the hands of whomever down below. I don't like this explanation either but I'm just trying to apply both sides of the logic.

"Poroshenko is asserting that this might have been the Russian side, as they've shot down other planes in previous days."

Poroshenko blaming something on Russian speakers? Color me surprised!

There are many reasons you should fly over a warzone, even if you can't be shot down. What if you need to make an emergency landing for some reason?

"Under normal circumstances, 33,000 feet isn't a war zone regardless of who is fighting below you either. "

Cite it. Or are you pulling something else out of your ass.

"Because no violence ever occurs within a state's borders when it's at "peace."

Not when the population wants to be incorporated in the state borders, no.

"Heck, that's what you're asserting Israel does to Palestinians, even in peacetime."

But they're not incorporating it. They're treating it like alien territory continually occupied. If Palestinians were all made Israeli citizens the violence would end.

Shouldnt*

"Poroshenko blaming something on Russian speakers? Color me surprised!"

Ditto your shameless defense of any and all Russian/Separatist actions!

Russia has a history of this, Putin...those other planes...

The Soviet union accidentally shot down a plane in the 1980s, I believe...

But history is fungible to someone who thinks War is Peace.

You have ME that slogan, Santa...

But PUTIN is the one who just came out in favor of it!

Conquest = Peace, folks...so let's get to conquering the whole world, that's the peaceful way!

Under normal circumstances, military aircraft aren't repeatedly shot out of the sky. I think normal circumstances went out of the window in Eastern Ukraine some time ago.

Cite what, Santa? There aren't many projectiles that could hit something there from the ground. Obviously that wasn't the case here; I'm just trying to speculate as to what their thought process was.

That's a good point, abge. Beats me.

@Putin: LOL if you really believe that.

The Palestinians and Israelis will never have peace. The Arab nations who despise Israel and the extremists who operate in Palestine will continue to stir up trouble, while Israel continues it's offensives to keep from being driven into the sea and extinguished.

"But they're not incorporating it. They're treating it like alien territory continually occupied. If Palestinians were all made Israeli citizens the violence would end."

...No. No, it would not. Because...and try and follow this here, Putin...

PALESTINIANS DON'T *WANT* TO BE CITIZENS OF ISRAEL.

They want their own state! They don't want to be part of Israel...

Many aren't happy an Israel exists at all, and that a PALESTINE doesn't!

Seriously, how do you misunderstand the basics of a conflict that badly???

" Conquest ends the war. Of course it ends the violence. "

Excellent - glad to see that Putin is fully in support of the IDF invading Gaza and once and for all demonishing the Palestinian terrorists to end the violence of constant rocket attacks against Israel.

I'm also glad to see that he is in support of the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan in an attempt to stem violence both in the middle east, and via global terrorist networks. I'm certain his only complaint would be that we simply didn't oppress the occupied nations enough - physically and temporally - to ensure the violence stayed quelled.

Cite your assertion "31000 feet isnt a warzone" are you speaking from your military experience, your civilian aircraft experience, from the rules of war or are you speaking out of your ass.

"keep from being driven into the sea and extinguished."

Stale, old, paranoid sloganeering.

"No. No, it would not. Because...and try and follow this here, Putin...

PALESTINIANS DON'T *WANT* TO BE CITIZENS OF ISRAEL."

Sure they do. Demographically Israel would cease to be a Jewish state.

"They want their own state! They don't want to be part of Israel..."

Many don't think that's possible anymore.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/06/25/mounting-pessimism-about-two-state-israeli-palestinian-solution/

Shit, MSNBC reporting there may have been 23 Americans on board...

If it was the Russians or the Separatists, this might be a 21st century Lusitania.

And if this is the fascists in Kiev, you'll ignore it.

Warmonger.

Obi, why not the Ukrainians too?

"shit, msnbc reporting there may have been 23 americans on board" - nice to see that the nationality of who died is important to you - guess it wouldn't have been so bad if they were all malaysian.

"Obi, why not the Ukrainians too?"

The US doesn't have already-frosty relations with Ukraine, hence my comment--

If it were Ukraine, it would be just as bad,

But it were Russia, it would make things WORSE in an already-bad relationship.

"Warmonger."

But you say that like it's a BAD thing, Putin..you just said, Conquest is GOOD...

That War is Peace!

Obiwan is the quintessential tribalist. Only certain nationalities are allowed to live. And only certain nationalities are allowed to defend themselves.

"nice to see that the nationality of who died is important to you - guess it wouldn't have been so bad if they were all malaysian."

I care on a humanitarian level no matter who it is.

I care on a political level if it's one superpower killing citizens of another superpower.

Sorry, the political reality is that'd make US/Russian relations even worse, which tends to get the world on edge when that's the case.

"The US doesn't have already-frosty relations with Ukraine, hence my comment--
"

Right, which is why if the Ukrainians did it, anybody with a conscience would conclude that the US should rethink backing these fascists to the hilt. But not Obiwan.

Conquest is a resolution. War is a lack of resolution.

Why does this basic point escape you?

"Obiwan is the quintessential tribalist. Only certain nationalities are allowed to live. And only certain nationalities are allowed to defend themselves."

I said nothing about only certain nationalities being able to live,

And you're the one pushing the Conquest for Peace plan.

Really, Putin, you have all the credibility of the North Korean News Agency...

Which I suppose is as good a news source in the world as there is in your book.

Although Obi is an idiot, the fact that there are 23 Americans and likely a large number of Dutch, both NATO members is certainly relevant to the situation

"I said nothing about only certain nationalities being able to live,"

Which is why you support the murderers in Kiev and the assault on Gaza.