Enough with the end votes Maniac, if you are really not scum then fight for your innocence instead of giving up. That is even scummier behavior. bosox did the same thing on Day 2.

Gmail note: to bring down the hammer would require 4 votes on a person and 4 end votes.

@Guak - "Maniac: you keep using the opinions of dead players to support your cases. Yet, these are only opinions. Just because they were said by a town player does not make them true."

you are absolutely right. But we know that they thought they were true and their motives are now unimpeachable. Everything the remaining players say (including myself) has to be viewed with suspicion because no one knows a person's alignment for sure. (although Y2 seems pretty convinced).

Also Guak, I gave you a full rebuttal of you case against me. You picked up on one of my supplemental points that Scum wouldn't slip so early, but you haven't commented on my full rebuttal.

*GM Note damn auto fill.

@pj: I do not appreciate you lying earlier, but I guess that if someone else was doc-visited they can reveal it as a counterclaim. So, I will switch back to Maniac for now. I really do not buy your reasons for not revealing earlier since being visited by the doc does not reveal who the doc is and I am almost expecting a counterclaim there, but for now ##VOTE Maniac.

There won't be a counterclaim. And if there is, it's scummy. Guaranteed.

@PJ - how would claiming you were doc saved lead the doc to an almost certain nightkill?

Doc should not roleclaim yet

Thanks Vash

@Maniac You are just killing me. I don't have an answer to this question.

@Maniac: I thought your rebuttal was quite weak so I did not feel the need to address it further. Most of your defenses are phrases like 'this is just how the game is played' or 'I stand by my comment'. You also admit that several of the things you have done are scummy. I don't see you finding any weaknesses in the logic I used nor explaining why you believe my case is weak.

What I do see is that when you decide you are goind to vote with the doc or based on ghug's reads you are basically using an excuse to avoid building original cases and to avoid generating content. I can see that you really trust ghug's psychic powers, but I believe more in the power of evidence and information. I have already made my rebuttal of ghug's case and do not need to keep talking about this. I do believe that you need to explain a lot of your scumminess.

Of course you don't PJ.

If you somehow thought the Doc was threatened by you telling us all he visited you then why tell us now and expose him to a nightkill?

And what's this BS about "Hence my thoughts on the night kills. I was trying to bread crumb. I guessed Ghug shot me but I was doc saved" You were called out earlier for seeming to know who killed Krellin. The 'fact' you were visited does not in any way absolve you from having actual knowledge.

Maniac - your pushing further and further against the town. Why don't you spend a little more time defending yourself and less trying to throw the blame on to me.

Oh crap - hate to do this but PJ, you have got to roleclaim.

We are now 4 v 2. If we mislynch we go down to 3v2, we lose another overnight and we're dead.

The only two real suspects are PJ and me. As both of us are govt I can't let either one of us die. PJ can now decide who to vote off today. If we hit mafia then PJ can protect himself tonight (but for 1 night only). We can then find SK the following day.

No Maniac - you idiot. With your stunningly brilliant play - you've forced the only remaining town role to get killed tonight.

Yes, I'm the doctor. As a halfwit can now work out, I saved myself last night, which means I can't save myself on consecutive nights. So, well done Maniac.

I saved Maniac on N1 (although he wasn't targeted) which was now a bloody stupid thing to do. N2 - I was going to save Ghug until it became totally apparent he was going to shoot me. It was a hard decision - but my call was that it was in the towns interest to have a living doctor rather than a living Vig who had made both his shots. Right or wrong that we the call I made but lucky for us Maniac's wonderful plans have screwed that up.

Well, that's an interesting turn of events. PJ, even using the "not wanting to say Doc save because it would expose him to an almost certain night kill" line made it obvious you were claiming doc role. Honestly, I think you'd have done better to do a save reveal and make little of it, than to lie about it. (Assuming it is in fact true.) If there's another doc claim, then let's hear it, though it's pretty clear that there's not going to be a definite way to prove which is real. The only thing is, I don't really see a non-PJ doc saving PJ last night, so if there IS a counterclaim, you'd have to explain that, and explain it well.

So, if there's a real doc, you absolutely need to counterclaim so we know to kill PJ. Otherwise, ##VOTE Maniac. Going to try and look back for some cases against the rest of us, assuming PJ's innocence. If Maniac isn't the mutant, then we need to do some serious re-evaluating, even though I think he's a pretty likely mutant right now.

Does anyone think it's at all possible ILN is scum?

PJ - we lose if I die. Simple as. We need someone who is confirmed town to direct other town how to vote. You now need to listen to everyone's arguments - pick a guy to lynch now - which everyone must agree to and list who gets voted off when you (or whoever) gets killed tonight.

How we got here doesn't matter. What matters is we win. The only way to win is having a town block vote. Sorry but there it is.

I think it's possible; going to go back through everything again to try and rank the possibilities once more. I don't know if ILN is scum, but I think there is potential for both kinds at the moment. I'll adjust that feeling after the readthrough.

@y2k: I think there is a real chance that he is the last lizard. I posted my case againt him in the last page and it looks like bosox put a lot of effort into convincing everyone to keep ILN alive because he was new to the game

Also, everyone could be mutant except pj. And me of course, but well you can all say the same thing so I guess I could be too from your point of view. I think my favorite for the mutant role right now is Maniac, and my favorite for the last lizard is ILN. However, since Maniac is my number 2 for lizard and I think that ILN is unlikely to be the mutant I am inclined to stay on Maniac for now.

So ILN bussed bo_sox? I could definitely buy that.

I would say it is a strong possibility. Either that or one between you and WD is the mutant or have played an absolutely amazing lizard.

##CALL GM
Current vote tally, please :3

Day 3 Vote Count Update 1

Maniac(4): y2kjbk, pj, Warden, guak
Y2kjbk (1): ILN
Guak (1): Maniac

Currently MANIAC is set to be lynched.
20 hours 44 minutes remain.

The problem the govt had until PJ's outing is that we didn't have any chance to get govt block vote going. Apart from obv not knowing who is the SK and who is the reptile, all the info is now in front of us. What the govt has to do is commit to following PJs voting list of candidates. If PJ lists Maniac, ILN, Y2" Guak and WD as his scum then everyone should vote me off. When PJ or whoever gets killed we vote off next guy on the list. SK and reptile can't manipulate this list. PJ will either list SK and reptile towards top of his list or he won't. After we have all made representation to PJ, he will either win it for the govt or he won't. But at least we know his motivation is a govt win.

Everyone needs to commit to following PJs list.

I'm going to make full reads later. I've made my play, some of you will think its terrible, fair enough, but I can't change it now. You have to look past that. Look at how a mutant and reptile would've played a fake cop role. Would they have been insistent that doc didn't save them on n2 or would they have not said anything about the doctor? Both the mutant and reptile have kill roles, they don't want doc spoiling their fun. They would have been quite happy to accept a doc save themselves.

@WD - if I'd just claimed Doc Save, it wasn't a massive leap to figure it out - I think you even said earlier it would've been very suspicious if Id been saved.

@Maniac - why is me making a town list any more sensible than any other solution? Yes I'm a confirmed townie but this doesn't give me any particular insight into scum hunting and judging by this game so far my hunting skills suck. If I put the list in the wrong order then the lizard doesn't need to try and manipulate he just gets lucky and the odds are definitely in his favour.

I wanted to elaborate on why PJ should now draw up a list of Scum-town and all town members should follow that final decision.
We’re in bad shape and can’t afford a mislynch. If govt officials split our votes then scum will prosper. From here on in every govt official has to votethe same way. We may be wrong, but it is our only chance to win. We cannot win if only three of us vote for PJ’s top target. If PJ gets killed the only way of ensuring all remaining Govt officials vote the same way is if we follow PJs list. Again we could be wrong but at least we will be wrong together, following the confirmed govt lead. Lets say PJ gets it right and lists:-
Mafia/SK
SK/Mafia
Govt
Govt
Govt
Govt (PJ)
We win because no matter who SK/mafia kills the remaining Govt officials all vote him off next day.
If PJ gets it wrong say:
Govt (maniac)
SK/mafia
Mafia/SK
Govt
Govt
Govt (PJ)
PJ tries to save 1 govt. But who do the baddies kill?
The guy at top of the list KNOWS he will be lynched the following day. If that’s the SK he might kill guy in Position 3 (mafia), he might hold his fire knowing it doesn’t matter, he might shoot same guys as guy in P3.
Guy in P3 has to shoot someone below him. That might be the same guys as P2 shoots. If the guy in P3 is mafia he has to use his roleblock on his top SK suspect, not on PJ which means Doc may be able to save someone. A doc save still goes through provided he isn’t roleblocked.
Any arrangement that puts SK or mafia in P4 or P5 is almost certain lose for the Govt. But if PJ is ranking one of scum that low now, we’ve lost anyway.
The SK and Reptile will argue against this proposal. They will want to see PJ dead tonight and be able to try and manipulate votes tomorrow. Don’t let that happen.

PJ needs to sign up to my suggestion ASAP and all remaining town need to commit to voting as a Govt block. Our chances of winning this thing are slim, but we have to give ourselves the best chance, and this is the best chance we have.

PJ - lizards can't manipulate the list once it is cast in stone. They can shoot people below them but you are below them in list anyway - if they shoot you, govt carries on with the list. If they don't shoot you - you can vary the list.