Oh fuck off krellin, I'll go after whoever you guys want me to kill. It's just like last game. You know who I am so let me do the dirty work, and they'll role block me over and over again for awhile, but that means the vigilante can take his last shot whenever and it means the doc and cop can work without worry, plus they don't have to claim any time soon, which hurts the mafia dearly.

Sadly. Totally support Bo in this one.

"die mutant"

Thank you y2k. I can't beat that case.

Krellin - you weren't in M3 - others will back me up keeping a known SK to kill later is better for town than it is for mafia. We spent a day discussing it. Trust me keeping sk now is good. Look at who wants him dead.

Why this is different from last time:
PE's claim was much more verifiable.
All scum were still alive.
We had already lost the vig.
We had time to find a new target.

Why bo is fakeclaiming:
Last page, he said he wasn't going to say which role because he was trying to survive the day and the night. This page, he said that gave away who he was. The implication there is that he's the vig, worried about mafia targeting. Now he's given up on trying to convince us he's the vig, as we all realize that he would have just claimed initially if that were the case.

here's what happens if we don't lynch bo_sox right now:
1. He kills whoever he wants.
2. Mafia likely gets their kill through
3. Vig, unless lucky, likely misses or doesn't fire.
4. We wake up day 2 unable to lynch bo_sox because the numbers say we have to find scum ASAP. We kill bo_sox now. That is the town move.

wake up day 3*

We still have a Vig even after we kill bo_sox, he know's he's not convincing us of that, yet he didn't just open with the mutant ploy. As ghug suggests, it's possible that he's fake claiming, but even if he's not, then it's better for us to lynch him today than tomorrow because knowing that he's on the block tomorrow means that he has no real incentive to act as the town directs. With PE, the town had lost vig, but also still had a lot of members alive. The smaller game has to be tighter, and more kills is not worth the risk in this case.

^

Mafia knows they're in trouble if bo_sox goes away now. Lynch him. They won't roleblock you, and if they did, it would only be if we could give you perfect orders on who to kill AND assume you'd follow through. No way.

Honestly, the vigilante could even reveal now to assuage us that bo_sox is not the vigilante, and we'd be fine. doctor visits vig, and let mafia waste a roleblock on the vig while the cop scans away.

This isn't M3. The SK's game is to win, not help the town.

You kill the things you know are bad. I can not be convinced otherwise. Bo's claim that he will do whatever is asked of him...bullshit.

Even if we say "kill X" and X dies, you don't know if Bo did it, or the real SK, or mafia, or whatever.

There is this tendency around here of people to think they can predict others behaviors. I assure you that that belief is dangerous and wrong.

"Trust me keeping sk now is good. Look at who wants him dead. " -Maniac

Look at who wants him alive. Keeping the SK alive in this smaller game with as many potential night kills as we have tonight is NOT worth the risk. And if he's fake claiming all the more reason to get rid of him. There is no way this is a fake claim by anything apart from lizard if it is fake. And if it's not, then we've got one less kill per night, and vig could possibly hold fire.

@ghug - I take your points re difference from last game but.

Keeping sk forces reptiles to roleblock him.
Reptiles act as a voting block for day kills so can manipulate the day kills, an unblocked SK is not manipulatable by scum.
Our doc should save cop, and Vig should shoot his last bullet. Cop should scan randomly.

After days end and not before we could even discuss merits of a full role claim of our power roles. Whoever scum hit we will know the rest. I'm not advocating a full reveal after bedtime, but we should discuss it. Does that work better with a live SK? Possibly. Need more time to think.

+1 WD

Seriously, these are the shittiest arguments to lynch me. Those of you that have a bit of sense about you and don't want to kill the guy that is willing to do WHATEVER YOU WANT, unvote, and let's look back at some others and see what juicy reptilian behavior we might find. I already demonstrated how this will benefit the town.

Maniac - nonsense keeping SK alive forces mafia to role block him. Again, predictiv skills in this game tend to be WOEFULLY inadequate! Since nobody knows who the mafia is, they will only worry about Bo is they think Bo is on to him.

Who did Bo kill yesterday? You have NO knowledge of who he killed, and you can not believe him at this point, because he is in full defense mode.

More to the point, who will he kill tonight? Another random townie, no doubt...Those are the odds.

We sniffed Bo out by his behavior, so it's time to kill him, and trust that we will do OUR job Day 3 and sniff the next one out - not rely on Bo...

Maniac, you're assuming the lizards know who the town's power roles are, and you've also assumed that everyone buys your little slips. Lizards have no better guesses for town powers than the regular humans, and with as small a pool of targets it's more than possible if we have 3 kills tonight that a power role would be one. Especially if bo is fake claiming or is even just lying about his intentions. It's not a play worth the high uncertainty here.

Look I'm aware that if we don't kill Bo - then WD, Y2 and poss one other will bandwagon me. But still I think we need to think of benefits of keeping Bo before rushing to lynch.

GM NOTE: To avoid outside influence on the game, please refrain from +1ing posts by the players. Posts from the GM, however, are fair game to +1.

So unless YOU'RE a lizard, and YOU think you've figured out all the power roles, your argument doesn't make much sense to me.

Krellin, Chaqa was my top scum read. Look at page 19. I damn near implied my role on page 22 without realizing it too when I went on and on about how good the vig's first shot was at uclabb and listing out my reasons for getting rid of Chaqa. No one else went into nearly that much detail. Doing so is a mistake I won't make again if I ever get this role in the future.

Other possibility - Bo is mafia fake claiming to save himself - in which case mafia kills whoever we tell Bo to kill, and SK does whatever he wants trying to make sure Bo gets killed. Mafia Bo survives. SK survives.

Other scenarios exist as well -- but the bottom line is this ridiculous idea that you can trust Bo and that he provides more good to the town than harm is stupid.

Majority chance is more townies die with Bo's living than not.

So you scum-read Chaqa - big fucking deal. Chaqa was.....town....

<scribble scribble scribble...note to self...."Day 3...maniac....">

Maniac, if we leave bo alive now and he is SK, we'll be in the same position going into the night before the one where we killed PE. It's pretty clear he can't survive through tomorrow, so there's no point for him to do what we say.

I know, I know this is me going out on a limb but I still totally disagree with lynching Bo.

I'm looking at it from the Lizards side, if he really is the SK, then suddenly they have another variable to deal with. The whole game is based on the fact that they have more info than we do. This gives them something else that they need to control and deal with. Yep - we don't know which way Bo will go, neither do they and trust me that will give them issues.

oK - I'm convinced I don't think it's a slam dunk decision you guys are making out, but if don't think we could all agree otherwise in less than 1 hr ## vote bo

Oh, I'm sure it would give them issues, PJ, but it also gives just as many issues for the innocents, especially if bo hits a town power role on top of a missed shot and/or mafia kill. And like ghug, I'm not even 100% convinced that this is a real mutant claim in the first place. It's just as likely in my mind that he's lizard scum rather than mutant scum.

Now, the real mutant would LOVE to keep a fake alive this round if it's fake, and I think lizards would be willing to deal with the wildcard of a loose mutant for one round for that extra kill potential.